Bahai Scriptures

[peaceful K]

Peace! I have been trying to learn about the Bahai faith for awhile now. I truly respect the values of this religion. I have a question about the Scriptures though. While I've had no problem obtainig copies of the writings of Bahaullah, Abdul Baha abd Shghi Effendi, I have been unable to find translations of the Bab's works. Can someone please give me advice on how I might gain access to the writings of the Bab? Thanks.

[peace123]

this link might be helpful for you

http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/index/albab.htm

[peace123]

oops, just realized they are in farsi , sorry.


try this on instead.

http://www.bahai-library.com/writings/bab/swb/

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by peaceful K

Peace! I have been trying to learn about the Bahai faith for awhile now. I truly respect the values of this religion. I have a question about the Scriptures though. While I've had no problem obtainig copies of the writings of Bahaullah, Abdul Baha abd Shghi Effendi, I have been unable to find translations of the Bab's works. Can someone please give me advice on how I might gain access to the writings of the Bab? Thanks.

The best sources are the Baha`i prayer books, and the single volume Selections from the Writings of the Bab, which is also available from the Publishing Trust or your local Baha`i spiritual assembly library or book store.

One can also read Taherzadeh's biography of the Bab, and Dawnbreakers, by Nabil. You can probably find the on-line edition of Dawnbreakers by simply typing the title and a comma and the word "Nabil" in your search engines.

Regards,
Scott

[kiwimac]

To try the following site by some of the remaining Babi's.

http://www.bayanic.com/

Kiwimac

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

To try the following site by some of the remaining Babi's.

http://www.bayanic.com/

Kiwimac

As best as canbe figured that website is run by a single person. There are no remaining Azali's to speak of, not more than a dozen or two and they are very reclusive.

As a Baha`i, I can assure you that the Bab's works on that website do not match the archived material unjdeniably from the Bab in the Baha`i world center.
In particular the Bayan was not completed when the Bab was martyred. It was completed by Mirza Yahya al Nuri - a half-brother and bitter enemy of Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott

[arthra]

Originally Posted by peaceful K

Peace! I have been trying to learn about the Bahai faith for awhile now. I truly respect the values of this religion. I have a question about the Scriptures though. While I've had no problem obtainig copies of the writings of Bahaullah, Abdul Baha abd Shghi Effendi, I have been unable to find translations of the Bab's works. Can someone please give me advice on how I might gain access to the writings of the Bab? Thanks.

Thanks for your post "peaceful K" and welcome to the Baha'i forum!

You know actually the Baha'i Faith and Babism are in reality two dispensations or religions and while we Baha'is recognize the Bab as a Prophet and Messenger of God we are not bound by all the ordinances and laws that were revealed the Bab...so the priority for us has been to translate the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

As Scott pointed out though the only significant portion of the Bab's writings that are readily available to us in English currently are "Selections from the Writings of the Bab", and can be found in English online at

http://bahai-library.com/writings/bab/swb/

Some scholars though have translated portions of the Persian Bayan into English and these are online at

http://bahai-library.com/?file=bab_bayan_farsi_maceoin

As these are translations in progress they are not as yet accepted by us Baha'is as valid until they go through a review process.

Some of the enemies of the Bab interpolated and corrupted some of the manuscripts so we have to be extremely careful in accepting them as authentic. The Babis as well as later the Baha'is were persecuted and had to preserve what they could of valuable manuscripts... Sometimes these manuscripts were captured by enemies as I pointed out earlier and interpolated to suit the purposes of those who wanted to either discredit the Bab or wanted to claim a station for themselves.

- Art

[kiwimac]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

As best as canbe figured that website is run by a single person. There are no remaining Azali's to speak of, not more than a dozen or two and they are very reclusive.

As a Baha`i, I can assure you that the Bab's works on that website do not match the archived material unjdeniably from the Bab in the Baha`i world center.
In particular the Bayan was not completed when the Bab was martyred. It was completed by Mirza Yahya al Nuri - a half-brother and bitter enemy of Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott

Scott,

I would be very interested in just HOW you come by your figures of the number of Babi's left given the fact that they are indeed spread through much of the Middle East.

As for their materials on site, I would remind you that an "Untrammeled search for truth" is just that, a search which looks at all information not just the stuff that the apologists for various faiths have put out, it considers both information put out by the faith / society and also at sites that those who support the group being investigated might not agree with, because it is, after all, a SEARCH for truth.

As for the Bab's writings available from the UHJ, that's fine but they are after all translations, IMO, the originals are better and best of all are several different versions of the originals so that they might be compared. Failing that translations into English by reputable sources, preferably (again) more than one.


Kiwimac

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Scott,

I would be very interested in just HOW you come by your figures of the number of Babi's left given the fact that they are indeed spread through much of the Middle East.

As for their materials on site, I would remind you that an "Untrammeled search for truth" is just that, a search which looks at all information not just the stuff that the apologists for various faiths have put out, it considers both information put out by the faith / society and also at sites that those who support the group being investigated might not agree with, because it is, after all, a SEARCH for truth.

As for the Bab's writings available from the UHJ, that's fine but they are after all translations, IMO, the originals are better and best of all are several different versions of the originals so that they might be compared. Failing that translations into English by reputable sources, preferably (again) more than one.


Kiwimac

The Archives at the World Center contain originals - both of writings and dictations.
The particular Babi sect which sponsors the website call themselves "Bayanis" they are the individuals who followed Subhi Azal (Mirza Yahya al Nuri), Baha`u'llah's much younger half-brother.

Most of those who followed the Bab and chose not to follow Baha`u'llah became much involved in the constitutional revolution in Persia in the opening decades of the 20th century. They were highly politicized and mostly faded away from the Bab's religion over the generations to follow.

Subhi Azal (Mirza Yahya) was banished to Famagusta, Cyprus at the same time Baha`u'llah was confined to the prison city of Akka (1868). His followers drifted away, including his own family and sons, and he died a pauper to be buried in a Muslim ceremony in a muslim graveyard. An account of his death written by one of his sons was published in one of E.G. Browne's books (this is the link to the English translation from Browne's book http://bahai-library.com/?file=ridva...rza_yahya.html )

And:
"[page 97]

Mirza Yahya remained a recluse in Famagusta - there are no reports of him going to the mosque or to coffee-shops. The inhabitants of Famagusta appear to have regarded him as Muslim holy man and Mirza Yahya went along with this. When people called to greet on Muslim feasts like Bayram (it being customary to visit a holy man on such occasions), he accepted this. There was no attempt to teach the local people the Babi or Azali religious beliefs.


Although freed from the conditions of his exile in 1881 after the British occupation of Cyprus Mirza Yahya preferred to remain in Famagusta as a pensioner of the British Government. Mirza Yahya died on 29 April 1912 at the age of about 80. According to the account by his son, Ridvan-`Ali, who had by this time become a Christian and taken the name Constantine the Persian, no "witnesses to the Bayan" (i.e. Babis) could be found to carry out the funeral ceremony and so it was carried out by the Imam-Jum`a of Famagusta and other Muslim clerics.[25] All of Mirza Yahya's family in Cyprus maintained an outward appearance of being Muslims. The people of Famagusta used to call them sun-worshippers because of their custom of leaving the city at sunrise to go to Mirza Yahya's grave to pray. Mirza Yahya's descendants at the present time appear to know little about their family history or religious past and can for all practical purposes be regarded as Turks and Muslims. Riza Ezel, the caretaker of Mirza Yahya's grave at present, told us that his grand-father was a Muslim holy man. Since Jalal Azal's death, his widow `Ismat has put an annual notice in the newspapers on the anniversary of his death inviting people to a Mevlid recital and Qur'an reading in his memory (this being the traditional Turkish Muslim custom).[26] " http://bahai-library.com/?file=momen_cyprus_exiles


We had this discussion before on the other list, as I recall.

Regards,

Scott

[peaceful K]

Very interesting replies. Thank you very much. Wow. I am impressed by your knowledge, friends. These are questions I have been wondering about for a long time. I've contacted the Bahai publishing folks here in the states and they tell me that while Selections from the Writings of the Bab is currently unaviliable it will be published as a trade paperback soon. So I'm looking forward to that. I had wondered avout the status of the Azalis for some time. Most scholars seem to think thier extinct. And it seems likely. But I wonder and perhaps this warrants another thread... but do the teachings of the Bab or those of Bahaullah for that matter accept the practice of Taqqiya? (disimulation as the Shiah have it)