John

Lightkeeper · #1 (**permalink**) 25th February 2006, 06:43 PM

Chapter 1

Quote:

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] He was in the beginning with God;
[3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
[4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
[5] The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
[6]
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

[7] He came for testimony, to bear witness to the light, that all might believe through him.
[8] He was not the light, but came to bear witness to the light.
[9]
The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.

[10] He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.
[11] He came to his own home, and his own people received him not.
[12] But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God;
[13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14]
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

[15] (John bore witness to him, and cried, "This was he of whom I said, `He who comes after me ranks before me, for he was before me.'")
[16] And from his fulness have we all received, grace upon grace.
[17] For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
[18] No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
[19]
And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?"

[20] He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ."
[21] And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the prophet?" And he answered, "No."
[22] They said to him then, "Who are you? Let us have an answer for those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"
[23] He said, "I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, `Make straight the way of the Lord,' as the prophet Isaiah said."
[24]
Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.

[25] They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?"
[26] John answered them, "I baptize with water; but among you stands one whom you do not know,
[27] even he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."
[28] This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
[29]
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

[30] This is he of whom I said, `After me comes a man who ranks before me, for he was before me.'
[31] I myself did not know him; but for this I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel."
[32] And John bore witness, "I saw the Spirit descend as a dove from heaven, and it remained on him.
[33] I myself did not know him; but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, `He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'
[34] And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."
[35]
The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples;

[36] and he looked at Jesus as he walked, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God!"
[37] The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus.
[38] Jesus turned, and saw them following, and said to them, "What do you seek?" And they said to him, "Rabbi" (which means Teacher), "where are you staying?"
[39] He said to them, "Come and see." They came and saw where he was staying; and they stayed with him that day, for it was about the tenth hour.
[40] One of the two who heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
[41] He first found his brother Simon, and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which means Christ).
[42] He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, "So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas" (which means Peter).
[43]
The next day Jesus decided to go to Galilee. And he found Philip and said to him, "Follow me."

[44] Now Philip was from Beth-sa'ida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
[45] Philip found Nathan'a-el, and said to him, "We have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
[46] Nathan'a-el said to him, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."
[47] Jesus saw Nathan'a-el coming to him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!"
[48] Nathan'a-el said to him, "How do you know me?" Jesus answered him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
[49] Nathan'a-el answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!"
[50] Jesus answered him, "Because I said to you, I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You shall see greater things than these."
[51] And he said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man."

RSV Bible

heavenbound · #2 (**permalink**) 13th June 2006, 03:46 PM

Jesus was not God, Jesus portrayed the attributes of God in the flesh..
God cannot be a man neither can a man be God...
Noone has seen God at anytime.. But we can see the Son of God..
Jesus said when you have seen me you have seen the father..
He didn't mean God in the flesh but understand His his judgement and character..
God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself..
God was working through Christ to accomplish His redemptive work on earth..
God also works through saved indivisuals to continue His work on earth..
Jesus was sent by God, He was Gods spokesman, Gods messenger, Gods Son,
Jesus was the living Word, Not that He was God almighty..

RHEMtron · #3 (**permalink**) 13th June 2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavenbound

Noone has seen God at anytime..

No, God is invisible and cannot be seen.
(Or if you do see him, you will die.)
-Exodus 33:20
There shall no man see me, and live.
-John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time.
-John 6:46
Not that any man hath seen the Father.
-1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever.
-1 Timothy 6:16
Whom no man hath seen nor can see.
-1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time.

Yes, many have seen him.
-Genesis 12:7
And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.
-Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him....
-Genesis 18:1
And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre.
-Genesis 26:2
And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of.
-Genesis 26:24
And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not.
-Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
-Genesis 35:9
And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
-Genesis 48:3
And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan.
-Exodus 3:16
The LORD God ... appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you.
-Exodus 4:5
That they may believe that the LORD God ... hath appeared unto thee.
-Exodus 6:3
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob....
-Exodus 24:9-11
Then went up Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. And they saw the God of Israel ... They saw God, and did eat and drink.
-Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend.
-Exodus 33:23
And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts.
-Numbers 14:14
For they have heard that thou Lord art among this people, that thou Lord art seen face to face.
-Deuteronomy 5:4
The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire.
-Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.
-Judges 13:22
And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
-1 Kings 22:19
I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
-Job 42:5
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
-Psalm 63.2
To see thy power and they glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.
-Isaiah 6:1
In the year that King Ussiah died, I saw, also, the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up.
-Isaiah 6:5
For mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
-Ezekiel 1:27
And saw ... the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward....
-Ezekiel 20:35
And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
-Amos 7:7
The LORD stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand.
-Amos 9:1
I saw the Lord standing upon the altar: and he said, smite the lintel of the door, that the posts may shake.
-Habakkuk 3:3-5
God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran .... He had horns coming out of his hand.
-Matthew 18:9
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Paul · #4 (**permalink**) 26th June 2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavenbound

Jesus was not God, Jesus portrayed the attributes of God in the flesh..
God cannot be a man neither can a man be God...
Noone has seen God at anytime.. But we can see the Son of God..
Jesus said when you have seen me you have seen the father..
He didn't mean God in the flesh but understand His his judgement and character..
God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself..
God was working through Christ to accomplish His redemptive work on earth..
God also works through saved indivisuals to continue His work on earth..
Jesus was sent by God, He was Gods spokesman, Gods messenger, Gods Son,
Jesus was the living Word, Not that He was God almighty..

Who was is the Son of God?:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

Madeline · #5 (**permalink**) 25th October 2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavenbound

Jesus was not God, Jesus portrayed the attributes of God in the flesh..
God cannot be a man neither can a man be God...
Noone has seen God at anytime.. But we can see the Son of God..
Jesus said when you have seen me you have seen the father..
He didn't mean God in the flesh but understand His his judgement and character..
God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself..
God was working through Christ to accomplish His redemptive work on earth..
God also works through saved indivisuals to continue His work on earth..
Jesus was sent by God, He was Gods spokesman, Gods messenger, Gods Son,
Jesus was the living Word, Not that He was God almighty..

Jesus is clearly God, and the context of John proves this. He is also referred to as 'the God' (ho theos) in Titus 2:13—a title only used for the supreme God. The Jews wanted to stone him for claiming to be the eternal God in John 8:58 where he used the predicateless 'I AM.'

Love,
Madeline

Maheen · #6 (**permalink**) 25th October 2006, 03:39 PM

I belive Jesus is neither God nor His son.

If the argument is Jesus was born without a father, then Adam was born with No father no mother .

If God wanted a son why did he wait so long ? and why not The first Human ?
And why Jesus ???

Do You think God would let his son suffer ?

And why would God leave Mary down on earth ? And Why is Mary the mother of Jesus dead ?
And Why would God leave Jesus down on earth ?

God is so so Powerful if He had a family He would entrust them with Divine powers too.

God is God.....No one like Him, He is free of all wants , He says BE and it happens .
If God would have a son then God would not be God, he would be Ordinary .

There are so many versions of The Bible, each one is different.
If u look around You , each person in your community has a different version .
Then can You imagine at a broader level there must be countless versions.

By the way " The Koran " has only one version, not a word different
One Version - One Book .

Madeline · #7 (**permalink**) 25th October 2006, 06:19 PM

Well I believe that the authors wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. All scripture is inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16), inspired meaning God-breathed (theopneustos). The scriptures declare that Jesus is God and even calls Him God (John 1:1, 8:58, 20:28; Tit. 2:13; 2 Pet. 1:1, etc)

Love,
Madeline

**arthra** · #8 (**permalink**) 28th October 2006, 04:28 AM

To me we will never be able to have dialogue on these issues unless we examine some of the concepts involved and explore the meaning.

One of the significant things to me about the Gospel of John are the opening verses:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] He was in the beginning with God;
[3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
[4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

___________________________________

The use of the term "Word" or Logos is sigificant and seems to me to be related to the identical word used by the philosopher Philo Judeaus of Alexander who lived between (20 BCE - 40 CE). A summary of his concept of logos:

"The supreme being is God and the next is Wisdom or the Logos of God (Op. 24). Logos has many names as did Zeus (LA 1.43,45,46), and multiple functions. Earthly wisdom is but a copy of this celestial Wisdom. It was represented in historical times by the tabernacle through which God sent an image of divine excellence as a representation and copy of Wisdom (Lev. 16:16; Her. 112-113). The Divine Logos never mixes with the things which are created and thus destined to perish, but attends the One alone. This Logos is apportioned into an infinite number of parts in humans, thus we impart the Divine Logos. As a result we acquire some likeness to the Father and the Creator of all (Her. 234-236). The Logos is the Bond of the universe and mediator extended in nature. The Father eternally begat the Logos and constituted it as an unbreakable bond of the universe that produces harmony (Plant. 9-10). The Logos, mediating between God and the world, is neither uncreated as God nor created as men."

Source:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/philo.htm#SH11m

One of the early church fathers Origen had Philo's writings in his library and referred to them often. Origen was widely read and respected.

- Art

Madeline · #9 (**permalink**) 28th October 2006, 04:38 AM

The problem with that article is that they are seeing LOGOS outside of John's meaning. John was writing in a Hellenistic world where Greek philosophy was the norm. The logos was a familiar term meaning (to the populace) the non-personal Principle that made the world (viz. the view of Plato and other philosophers). Thus, a meager impersonal concept. However, John now presents a different meaning: the Word possesses personal attributes. No one can seriously read the prologue of John and get the idea that the Word who was the Light of all men, the only begotten of the Father, the Creator of all things, and to whom personal pronouns are applied, was only a concept.

Love,
Madeline

**arthra** · #10 (**permalink**) 28th October 2006, 05:02 AM

I'm not so sure though how widely known the concept of Logos was at the time that John wrote...as far as we know and we could explore this ... Philo was probably the only one to use this concept... so a question could be raised how did it appear in John's Gospel?

I won't argue the personalized concept of "Logos" but only the use of the term is significant I think.

But consider the concept of Philo:

"The Logos is the Bond of the universe and mediator extended in nature. The Father eternally begat the Logos and constituted it as an unbreakable bond of the universe that produces harmony..."

Now compare with the Gospel:

"... all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men."

You see how close this is to the early Christian concept.

- Art

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