I didnt want to stray from the opening post, so i started this thread as a tangent to this one: How Many Jesuses Are There?

RHEMtron: Again, who is the real Jesus? Which presentation is the right one? Paul's version of salvation through faith differed from James.

A literal interpretation shows faith is shown through works, therefore we are justified by works. That is why i say there isnt an agreement with Paul, who emphasized salvation is through faith alone. James states it's faith in conjunction with works... emphasizing on works. You even said it in your other posts: Belief in Jesus is essential to salvation according to Paul.

Sayings by Paul on faith:
-Romans 1:16-17: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God salvation to every one that believeth.... As it is written, The just shall live by faith.
-Romans 3:20: By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.
-Romans 3:28: A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
-Titus 3:5: Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Again, he is saying you must have faith alone.

The example above shows a conflict. Especially a doctrinal conflict. The following also shows conflict.

Justified by Works and Abraham:
James 2:21-22: Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isasac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected.

James 2:24: You see, that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Justified by Faith and Abraham:
Romans 4:2: For if Abraham were justified by works, he has something to boast about [glory in other translations], but not before God.

Romans 4:4-5: Not to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believe in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness...

A literal reading shows James saying Abraham is justified by works. Paul says Abraham is justified by faith.

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[belief is NOT the same as TRUTH]

It is a bad idea to take a verse, read it without its context, and then attempt to develop a doctrine from that verse alone. So then, let's take a look at the context of James 2:24 which says that a man is justified by works. James chapter 2 has 26 verses: Verses 1-7 instruct us to not show favoritism. Verses 8- 13 are comments on the Law. Verses 14-26 are about the relationship between faith and works.

Notice that James begins this section by using the example of someone who says he has faith, verses 14. He then immediately gives an example of what true and false faiths are. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17). Then he shows that that type of faith isn't much different from the faith of devils (verse 19). Finally, he gives examples of living faith by showing Abraham and Rahab as examples of people who demonstrated their faith by their deeds.
James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20).
This is why in the middle of his section on faith and works, he says in verse 19, "You believe that God is one. You do well; the devils also believe, and shudder." James says this because the devils believe in God, that is, they have faith, but the faith they have is useless. It does not result in appropriate works. Their faith is only a mental acknowledgment of God's existence.
So James gives us a definition of what faith is.
James is simply saying that if you ‘say' you are a Christian, then there had better be some appropriate works manifested or your faith is false. This sentiment is echoed in 1 John 2:4 which says, If you say you have come to know Him, yet you do not keep His commandments, then the truth is not in you and you are a liar. or something to that effect.
Apparently, there were people who were saying they were Christians, but were not manifesting any of the fruit of Christianity. Can this faith justify? Can the dead ‘faith' that someone has which produces no change in a person and no good works before men and God be a faith that justifies? Absolutely not. It is not merely enough to say you believe in Jesus. You must actually believe and trust in Him. If you actually do, then you will demonstrate that faith by a changed and godly life. If not, then your profession is of no more value than the same profession of demons.
As you pointed out James actually quotes the same verse that Paul uses to support the teaching of justification by faith in Rom. 4:3. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.' If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example.
Therefore, we are justified by faith. That is, we are made righteous in the eyes of God by faith as is amply demonstrated by Romans. However, that faith, if it is true, will result in deeds appropriate to salvation. After all, didn't God say in Eph 2v8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Can't you see it Rhem? It's so clear when examined thoroughly.

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Hi Paul my good friend. Good post you made. I learned alot about the protestant position from reading it! Very good job. As a Catholic and a theology student, I would say that what you wrote is good and alot of it is true but I believe that you are incorrect in a few things. Perhaps we can dialog this one together and learn from each others position. Let me know.

Take care and God bless you always.

In Christ the King through Mary the Queen,
Athanasius

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Roma locuta est causa finita est