The Bible and Truth - Page 4

John Harris · #31 (**permalink**) 27th August 2007, 07:53 PM

VIVAMIS123: A very good book for you to read would be Interior Castle, by Teresa of Avila. The points that stuck with me are that:
1. When one's spirit unites with God, it is an experience that will be remembered for a lifetime, and its validity is beyond question. Some people never get farther than this, but they are able to aid the spiritual lives of others.
2. If anyone were to claim that they had had an experience after which they had enjoyed continuous peace and joy, she would suspect that they had not had this experience at all. Thus, the first encounter is kensho (a word which Tenbones taught me, meaning "first taste").
3. With further prayer, this taste can become a permanent part of the personality. Teresa's first taste was in the "fifth mansion", whereas the continual presence was in the "eighth mansion".

vivamis123 · #32 (**permalink**) 27th August 2007, 08:10 PM

My first taste was in my 6th home LOL

**angeleyes** · #33 (**permalink**) 28th August 2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

Hi, angel eyes, that is one of my favourites too but you can't seperate it from it's clause:
St. John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Point well taken....I think the willingness to hear the truth is essential. Infact I think that would be the most important thing: the desire within us.

What I question, however, is the assumption that the "Word" of God means the Bible. I can't imagine it was meant to imply words on a page. Infact, the New Testament didn't exist when Jesus said this. So, what was he referring to?

Quote:

This is true Angel eyes, it is like a man born blind trying to imagine the colour red, he can't do it because he has no stimulous to draw on.

I don't believe in peoples version of "what the Spirit tells them" to be honest, i cannot base my life on mens opinions even my own, I want to know what God has said and if I can't know for sure what God has said then I might as well forget about all this Christianity business. Very little of the bible requires interpretation, the bible is mostly self interpreting, you compare scripture with scripture to get the sense of what is meant if a passage is difficult.
Some passages are difficult and I don't know of anyone who claims to know what every passage of the bible means but that which points us to salvation is very plain, that which points out mens problem and how it came to be so is very clear, the moral precepts are very clear, what pleases our creator is made plain, our hope for the future is laid out plainly, i'm not sure how much more we need.

One of the big problems in what passes for todays Christianity is people taking their own private interpretations and making them authoritative and some supposed revelation, but we have a standard, a rule against which all spiritual revelations can be measured against or tested and if people were willing to submit to the authority of the Word of God then this nonsense would stop.

Does it conform to God's Word? Do you check to see if it does? You must beware because devils can pose as benevolent angels or spirits and give false inspiration, this is why we are instructed to "test all things" and "test the spirits." These are loving warnings from the apostles so that we are not led astray.

I understand where you're coming from, and can say I once shared the same belief myself. Where, however, do we draw the line? Years ago I threw out my music because it was "secular." I bought only "Christian" greeting cards and books, and looked down on others because they didn't believe or behave as I did. At the same time, I tried to follow Jesus' examples and be forgiving and loving towards them. The problem was, I never did figure out how to do both at the same time.

It seems I always ended up on the judgemental side of the equation. (I wonder if anyone can do this, really....)

I know it's a big no-no to think we have "personal interpretations" of the Bible. But I've never really known anyone who took the entire Bible literally and in the same way, so I'm not sure there's any real objectively involved, even among those who claim there is.....

Quote:

I see it as a switch or a transaction between God and man, when man exercies saving faith in God though the gospel He becomes a new creature but one that then needs to progress as he is a newborn babe, so he must desire the sincere milk of the word that he may grow thereby and devolep so that he can stomach spiritual meat.

When do you think that "switch" happens, and how? Just curious....

**metis** · #34 (**permalink**) 28th August 2007, 03:13 PM

It would be illogical for one to believe the Bible is the "only truth" since it shares so much with other faiths as well, especially the Abrahamic. On top of this, if one were to believe that the Bible is completely divinely inspired and inerrant, they are getting very close to idolatry whereas an object (in this case the Bible) somehow becomes construed as "perfection" itself. If one is a theist, then probably only G-d (or the G-ds) could make such a claim. Nowhere in scripture is there a claim the Bible is inerrant.

However, another tact one could take would be to view the Bible as an attempt to capture the "truth" that we can also associate other approaches with, including science.

Shalom,
Vern

vivamis123 · #35 (**permalink**) 28th August 2007, 11:52 PM

What I have a hard time understanding is that some actually believe that God stopped talking, stopped inspiring people 2000 years ago.

**RevKathyV** · #36 (**permalink**) 29th August 2007, 12:29 AM

Viv

..me too

Paul · #37 (**permalink**) 29th August 2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angeleyes

What I question, however, is the assumption that the "Word" of God means the Bible. I can't imagine it was meant to imply words on a page. Infact, the New Testament didn't exist when Jesus said this. So, what was he referring to?

I believe the word that was then revealed and would be in the future, but any future inspiration will not replace any previous revelation unless God had said it would in advance.

Quote:

I understand where you're coming from, and can say I once shared the same belief myself. Where, however, do we draw the line? Years ago I threw out my music because it was "secular." I bought only "Christian" greeting cards and books,

I have done this very thing, though I do still listen to some secular music I would not be inclined to go out and buy it for sure.

Quote:

and looked down on others because they didn't believe or behave as I did.

True humilty comes when you realise that without Jesus you are nothing at all and that the only difference between you and everyone else is because of Jesus not because you are so moral.

Quote:

I know it's a big no-no to think we have "personal interpretations" of the Bible. But I've never really known anyone who took the entire Bible literally and in the same way, so I'm not sure there's any real objectively involved, even among those who claim there is.....

Millions of us have the same opinon on who God is, who man is, how we can be reconciled to God and that we should live according a life pleasing to Him in a good conscience. Most of the things we disagree on are inconsequential to our salvation and have more to do with practicing our religion, I can(and almost every other born again CHristian I know) go into many denomiantions and be perfectly at home with them without ever agreeing with everything they say, we love each other despite our differences, it is when we differ on a doctrine which concerns salvation that we no longer have communion with each other.

Quote:

When do you think that "switch" happens, and how? Just curious....

It happens when true saving faith is put in the work of the Father Son and Holy Spirit in the life death and ressurection of Jesus Christ for salvation, claiming no personal merit in achieving this but accepting it as a gift of His grace so that all the glory goes to Him.
It happens by God putting His Spirit within our hearts so that we are partakers of His divine nature when He does this it is permanent but we must walk in the Spirit to grow and mortify our old nature and it's lusts.

**angeleyes** · #38 (**permalink**) 30th August 2007, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

I believe the word that was then revealed and would be in the future, but any future inspiration will not replace any previous revelation unless God had said it would in advance.

I think the point I was trying to make was that the "Word" wasn't intended to be see as something written on a page (though we could certainly record our inspiration). Otherwise, what is the "Living Word?" How do you see it?

I think it's interesting to look at the definition of the "Logos" and what the people of that day might have thought about that term. Also, it's pretty obvious that certain passages (i.e. "In the Beginning was the Word) aren't meant to refer to scripture.

Quote:

I have done this very thing, though I do still listen to some secular music I would not be inclined to go out and buy it for sure.

True humilty comes when you realise that without Jesus you are nothing at all and that the only difference between you and everyone else is because of Jesus not because you are so moral.

Millions of us have the same opinon on who God is, who man is, how we can be reconciled to God and that we should live according a life pleasing to Him in a good conscience. Most of the things we disagree on are inconsequential to our salvation and have more to do with practicing our religion, I can(and almost every other born again CHristian I know) go into many denomiantions and be perfectly at home with them without ever agreeing with everything they say, we love each other despite our differences, it is when we differ on a doctrine which concerns salvation that we no longer have communion with each other.

I think that's commendable. I just remember when I was a more "traditionally" oriented Christian, it was hard to accept and love everyone. I often found myself judging almost everyone, which made it difficult to love as Jesus did.

Quote:

It happens when true saving faith is put in the work of the Father Son and Holy Spirit in the life death and ressurection of Jesus Christ for salvation, claiming no personal merit in achieving this but accepting it as a gift of His grace so that all the glory goes to Him.
It happens by God putting His Spirit within our hearts so that we are partakers of His divine nature when He does this it is permanent but we must walk in the Spirit to grow and mortify our old nature and it's lusts.

Certainly, we are to "die daily" as Paul said. However, I now see that as dying to the idea of judgement (either of other or ourselves). I've come to think that God's love encompasses all people, and maybe that's why I'm no longer a member of a particular church. Nothing wrong with church, mind you....

I simply prefer to think of God in broader terms....

SalahdinAlAmriki · #39 (**permalink**) 6th September 2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivamis123

My first taste was in my 6th home LOL

Aren't we commical? I see you're keeping it real! God Bless you Viv... or as the arabic text would have it... Allah barik fee!

Salams!

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