Question for Bible Believers

[evangelicalhumanist]

The Bible makes it clear that God (or His agents) can kill or save at will. Not only that, but the killing (or saving) can be quite selective.

A very few examples of killing:

• Everybody in the world except for 8.
• Everybody in 2 adjacent towns, but nobody anywhere else.
• All of those who were first-born.
• Rebellious Jews in the desert.
• A couple who didn’t give quite all their money to the apostles.
• Lot’s wife for looking back.
• 42 children for calling a prophet “baldy.”

Some examples of saving:

• All the Jews from Egyptian captivity
• Only those Jews who weren’t building golden calves in the desert.
• Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, from Nebuchadnezzar’s fire.
• Daniel from hungry lions.
• Lazarus, the widow's son at Nain, Jairus' daughter, who were already dead.
• Jesus from the jealous suspicions of Herod.

Now, what I wonder is, if God was capable of sending warning to Mary and Joseph to escape with their son to Egypt, and thus escape Herod’s plan (Matt 2:13-16) to kill all the first-born in and around Bethlehem, why couldn’t He have sent the same message to all the other parents in the town? Was this an oversight? Did all those children have to die in order to make the story better?

[Paul]

Why not warn eveyone who is going to be killed? Just today on the news in my country a 2 year old was sexually assaulted and killed, her uncle is in questioning about it.

God obviously had a purpose in preserving the life of Jesus and Moses. (Parallel stories in some respects).

At the same time there is a purpose in allowing the others to die. Do I know His secret counsels? No. Do I trust Him? 100%.

What I can do is when i read stories like this I can and am reminded that something has gone drastically wrong in the world. I know that because i care and recoil in horror at such things that survival of the fittest is not true, that I have a God given conscience, that if it were survival of the fittest I should be glad that there are less humans on the earth as there is more food for me.
It keeps me hoping for better things and looking for His soon return:
Jude 1v15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

[statrei]

Paul, trust is always based on prior evidence. EH makes a good point but he has overlooked the possibility that the Creator has merely given us a few examples of His power to form a basis for our faith in Him.

[evangelicalhumanist]

Originally Posted by statrei

Paul, trust is always based on prior evidence. EH makes a good point but he has overlooked the possibility that the Creator has merely given us a few examples of His power to form a basis for our faith in Him.

I don't really "overlook the possibility," so much as I look at the same evidence that you look at, and do not see how an uncaused creator is supported any better than uncaused existence of matter/energy. In fact, when I consider it more deeply, the creator scenario seems to me to be much less likely, because it makes much more specific and complex existential claims.

[Ceetee]

Originally Posted by statrei

trust is always based on prior evidence..

I probably won't be able to find this thread again, but
where does that quote come from? sounds familiar,
but even more important, is something some of us (me for one) should keep in mind

[Fortyone]

Right- the selective killing doesn't make sense, the withering of fig trees, the story about John the Baptist being put in prison but Jesus just going on about his merry way, then the debate over whether or not John the Baptist was actually risen from the dead, the two different Judas stories post-kiss, one of suicide, one not, two king herrod's, on and on and on- The bible doesn't make much sense when read literally... but when read figuratively, as metaphor and astological allegory it makes a lot of sense. That's what I say!

[vivamis123]

I agree with Fourtyone. Reading the Bible with just your eyes you will not see the Truth.

Dear E.H.

You wrote:

Now, what I wonder is, if God was capable of sending warning to Mary and Joseph to escape with their son to Egypt, and thus escape Herod’s plan (Matt 2:13-16) to kill all the first-born in and around Bethlehem, why couldn’t He have sent the same message to all the other parents in the town? Was this an oversight? Did all those children have to die in order to make the story better?

I don't have full knowledge of the Bible, but I do know that God speaks to everyone, but only few are listening. I believe that Mary and Joseph's faith was great after having visions. They felt guided by God and listened to dreams, intuition and signs and acted upon them. We don't know from the Bible if everyone else had signs too, but ignored them as pure coincedence, or had dreams but thought they had no meaning. We don't have the full information. We only know that God did speak to Mary and Joseph and they did act upon what they heard.

[Thinking Religion]

I very much enjoy Evangelical Humanist's questions and skepticism.

The question is a huge one -- we might as well go for the big one and ask why God allowed tens of millions to be starved to death or executed under Soviet rule, or why Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. without warning THEM.

I end up at God allowing human beings to have free will. However, having free will does not preclude warnings from God, so the simple 'free will' reply is inadequate.

Even the very faithful have trouble "hearing the voice of God." This is an enormous problem and struggle, both practically and intellectually. But the presence of the problem is not a critique of God's existence, it is a critique of God's means.

The conversation must begin, then, with accepting that God is real. Otherwise, the existence of God is the deeper issue that must be resolved before addressing the one before us now.

[vivamis123]

I agree with you T.R. I also enjoy E.H. posts and questions. I find them very valid and they help me to look at my beliefs, not that they would ever change, but E.H. helps me to define them better. I am getting to know myself better, my beliefs, my knowledge but also my lack of knowledge : ) It's all good.

I was thinking about free will, what free will do we have? I think we have the free will to experience our will with the pleasure and suffering or God's will....freedom. Most people don't know they have a choice, they are still caught in the illusion of duality.

[Luguber]

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Now, what I wonder is, if God was capable of sending warning to Mary and Joseph to escape with their son to Egypt, and thus escape Herod’s plan (Matt 2:13-16) to kill all the first-born in and around Bethlehem, why couldn’t He have sent the same message to all the other parents in the town? Was this an oversight? Did all those children have to die in order to make the story better?

The storyteller knew the myth of the first-born deaths in Egypt, and thought it would be a nice detail for linking the OT to the NT. Of course, neither really happened.