Travis, you just need to bracket the image url like below and the images will show up.

[IMG]url image [/IMG]

Ah yes, of course, only fair!

Age/Age Range : 37
Gender: M
West Coast/East Coast/In Between/Not In Your Bloody Country: West Coast
Religion/Philosophy: Panendeist/Integralist
Do you prefer fiction or non-fiction?: non-fiction, but I've almost finished Next, which would constitute the first fiction I've read in probably three years!
How many books per year do you average?: 6-12


Have you read this author before?: Yes
Have you finished the book yet; if not, where are you at?: Done
Do you like the writing style?: Yes
Is the subject matter difficult to comprehend?: No, but I keep finding things I didn't quite take in as well as the first reading
Would you read more from this author?: Yes

Ah, thanks for the tip. If you want to elaborate on your point, go ahead.

-TC

I'm not sure how much I'll participate, but here ya go:

Age/Age Range: 22 (until the end of the month )
Gender: M
West Coast/East Coast/In Between/Not In Your Bloody Country: In between
Religion/Philosophy: Agnostic-deist/Panendeist/some integralist influences
Do you prefer fiction or non-fiction?: non-fiction, except Harry Potter
How many books per year do you average?: Varies greatly. I'd say somewhere between 2 and 10.


Have you read this author before?: Yes
Have you finished the book yet; if not, where are you at?: Done
Do you like the writing style?: Umm, sometimes.
Is the subject matter difficult to comprehend?: Sometimes
Would you read more from this author?: Yes

__________________
"We cannot make, nor alter, nor even imitate so much as one blade of grass that He has made, and yet we can make or alter words of God as easily as words of man."
"We cannot serve God in the manner we serve those who cannot do without such service; and, therefore, the only idea we can have of serving God is that of contributing to the happiness of the living creation that God has made." -Thomas Paine

A few of the terms in the introduction, first there are five elements to the Integral Model: quadrants, levels, lines, states, and types. All of these are available, right now, in your awareness:

States of Consciousness: refer to subjective realities and generally come and go. States can include waking, dreaming, and deep sleep. They can also include meditative states, altered states (such as drug induced), and varieties of peak experiences (can be triggered by many different things such as making love, walking in nature, or listening to music)

States of consciousness also have what are called "bodies". Bodies mean a mode of experience or energetic feeling. We have three general bodies: gross associated with waking state interactions; subtle associated with dream state interactions; causal associated with deep sleep interactions. I know this can get confusing, so let me walk you through it.

Gross interactions would be associated with the five senses. A subtle body interacting with a gross body would give us what we commonly refer to as "waking consciousness". In other words, the subtle body interprets the gross body interactions and constructs a vision (dream) of their waking experience. Take away or minimize most of those waking state interactions (such as when you fall asleep) the subtle body has visions (dreams) that no longer build on those interactions. When the subtle body subsides, all that is left is the formless awareness experienced in deep sleep (just because you don't recall it doesn't mean it didn't occur). Our states seem to make this journey continuously from gross to subtle to causal back to subtle back to gross, and over and over. This gives us waking consciousness to REM sleep to deep sleep back to REM sleep back to waking consciousness. This pattern is confirmed in experiments with brain wave activity. In fact deviations from this pattern can seriously disrupt the individual (maybe due to sleep disorders or prolonged stay in one of the states).

Stages or Lines of Development: refer to subjective realities that are an enduring trait. For example, when one develops through the linguistic stage, language is always available, it does not come and go like passing from a dream state into a waking state. Mathematic computation could be considered a stage development. Concrete and concrete-operational thinking are stages.

Lines of development are sometimes refered to as "multiple intelligences" and unfold in a stage sequence. A generalized sequence could be considered as egocentric to ethno centric to worldcentric. Lines that unfold along that sequence can include cognitive, interpersonal, psychosexual, emotional, and moral. A person can be at different stage development per each line. Such as worldcentric cognitive; ethnocentric interpersonal; egocentirc psychosexual, emotional, and moral. Not all great thinkers are moral; not all great empathizers are brilliant.

Quadrants: are the ways in which we touch or experience our world, illustrated in the charts above.

Levels: refer to the various stages of development that can be charted in each quadrant which will often rise together. So a reptilian brain stem will be associated with impulse in a folded in sense (uroboric) living in families or groups.

More later,

-TC

Types: come in two modes. One is strait forward, either masculine or feminine. It should be noted, however, this is not the same as male or female. If it were referencing biological development, then yes. In our focus on the psychological, however, masculine and feminine refer to a way things are interpreted or experienced.

The second has to do with typologies such as feeling, thinking, sensing, intuiting.

There is a great example in the book about Carol Gilligan's work, In A Different Voice highlighting the difference in types in moral development, and we can discuss that if someone would like.

So when we throw it all together we get a map of "all quadrants, all levels, all lines, all types, and all stages". This is abbreviated as "all quadrants, all levels" or AQAL (pronounced aw-qual) illustrated in figure 6 of the introduction. If you do not have your book yet, basically draw a big plus to give you the four quadrants, and then three expanding concentric circles from the center of the quadrants. This will yield the general outline:

In the Upper Left (UL) or "I" quadrant: Body, Mind, Spirit

In the Upper Right (UR) or "It" quadrant: Gross, Subtle, Causal

In the Lower Left (LL) or "We" quadrant: Me, Us, All of Us

In the Lower Right (LR) or "Its" quadrant: Group, Nation, Global

Most of the lines of development occur in the UL quadrant

If we have some of our rationalists join the discussion, I know the "bodies", especially the subtle and causal are going to cause some angst, especially since it is placed in the UR (exterior/individual) quadrant where we get our objective views. So how do we objectively view a subtle or causal body? What we have to remember, is that when we view we are using our gross body, which is simply "the mode in which we experience". So we don't really "see" the bodies as much as we have the exterior qualities associated with them. Hopefully this illustration will help:



So what you have here is how an organism (technically in Integral Theory, a holon) is able to increase its capacity to perceive these bodies. So, even though an atom has all three bodies, it can only perceive the gross body. It lacks the capacity to perceive the subtle. But somewhere in between atoms and prokaryotes the ability to perceive the subtle becomes available, first emerging as "irritability". It then increases with evolution in its ability to exoerience with its subtle body. But the gross body does not remain in its infantile state either. It co-evolves along with the subtle body and in this sense they give rise to one another (in order to perceive with more subtlty it requires greater complexity of its gross body; and as the gross body gets more complex it can perceive more subtlty.)

This occurs up through the limbic system to neo-cortex where the causal body is perceived. (It is this causal body that will give us our sense of sentience, of being able to wonder why any of this is even here.) And again, the gross and subtle interactions increase in complexity with the increased perception of the causal body which has its corresponding subjectivity associations. The complex neocortex being the exterior component that allows the perception of the causal body.

Because humans are born with all three from the start, these different bodies don't seem different, we mostly assumed them to be a "fused state". But they are actually co-existing/co-interacting states that gives us the richness of "reality". And we can illustrate that as we pass through the three main states. In waking consciousness, all three are operating together. As we fall asleep the gross falls away and all we have are dreams in the REM stage, or subtle body interacting with causal body with minimal gross body. The Self is no longer constricted to, or preoccupied with, gross interactions. As we move from REM to deep sleep, we have the causal body unencumbered by the thought constructions of the subtle body. In many spiritual traditions, this is the "original face" of the Self, and it has to return here to be able to sustain the other interactions. Once it is refreshed, it moves from the unencumbered causal (formless) body into the subtle body (the second REM stage) where thoughts and concept give us our dreams until the causal/subtle interaction regains form with its gross body.

Now, when I say, regains form, I am not implying that the gross body disappears from other gross bodies as it enters REM sleep. I am simply saying that the Self's perception of its gross form dissolves into its subtle body, which in turn dissolves into its causal body which then reconstitutes its subtle body, which then reconstitutes its gross body (or takes form). The difference being the Self's awareness (and recollection) of that process. Being aware of the subtle/causal state is known as lucid dreaming. Being aware of the causal state is known as formless mysticism. But even though most of us have not developed the ability to retain awareness through these states, we can measure this process taking place, which is what brain waves are. So, you can actually confirm such a scenario takes place. As it does, there are various gross body interactions not requiring awareness to function (autotomic) also occurring. But we should expect exterior correlates to every occasion instead of reducing each occasion to its exterior correlates.

-TC

Age/Age Range : middle
Gender: Girl
West Coast/East Coast/In Between/Not In Your Bloody Country: West
Religion/Philosophy:no, yes
Do you prefer fiction or non-fiction?:fiction
How many books per year do you average?:15-20


Have you read this author before?:Yesm but his literature not philosophy
Have you finished the book yet; if not, where are you at?: Finished Ch. 1
Do you like the writing style?:I don't love it, but it will do
Is the subject matter difficult to comprehend?:no, but it is difficult to get a hold of his vocabulary.
Would you read more from this author?:You mean like Chapter 2??
Whats your favorite kind of icecream? Baskin Robbins Peanut Butter and Chocolate.

TC, I have a couple of questions. Regarding the refreshing and the Gross, Subtle, Casual Bodies, has there ever been any studies on atheism and insomnia? It seems that the insomniac would have a problem of being in contact with the Self.

When a person is in the Casual Body State is ego present or are we just in full contact with the Self?

__________________
InterfaithForums.com-Where your ideas and beliefs count.

Well, it should first be noted that I prefaced that with "according to some spiritual traditions". So, the "causal body" is always with you, it is the evre present background of awareness in which your thoughts arise which in turn form (dream) your perception of form. I don't know of any studies which you suggest, you might be able to ask a few of the atheists on this site! I have a sleep apnea which sometimes prevents me from getting restful sleep, and I have wondered if this might be an obsticle in my own contemplative practices. But it does not preclude my contemplations.

Try and think of the causal body as the relaxed peaceful state, and that it requires a great amount of energy to sustain the subtle and then even more so when we add the gross. One can think of this as the causal self creating its reality. Once the energy to do this runs down, we begin to shut down this creative output so that it can recharge and begin the creation and the energy required to sustain it. This is not idealism, we are not postulating that there isn't a world "out there". There are other "gross interactions" and "gross/subtle interactions". What we are talking about is how and to what degree we perceive these. In fact, what you will find, is that Integral Post-Metaphysics is about charting perspectives and what that entails.

In reference to your last paragraph, ego is a structure of the subtle body, and therefore not present in formless causal body. When they say formless they mean no matter and no thoughts, just consciousness as such. So, non-dual awareness is when the Self is aware of all three states at once and they are completely integrated, not fused, but integrated. Integrated means they have been explored on their own terms and then recollected as they interact. Fused means the interaction is not very distinguishable if at all detected.

-TC