I've been listening to the audio of Monday Night's class.

As I see it the main point Tolle is stressing is that if human consciousness doesn't evolve, the human race will be destroyed. He is trying to help us reach higher consciousness and evolve. He isn't partial to any particular religion. What some people call God he calls consciousness.

One could say he wants us all to have Christ consciousness and world peace starts with the individual. By working with anger, jealousy, pettiness, which is what he calls the ego, we become more conscious.

I have a question about Christ consciousness. Supposedly Christ was killed for his consciousness. Does this hold people back from trying for higher consciousness? How many can't see that Christ's death was a metaphor for letting parts of yourself die off so higher consciousness can evolve?

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As I see it the main point Tolle is stressing is that if human consciousness doesn't evolve, the human race will be destroyed. He is trying to help us reach higher consciousness and evolve. He isn't partial to any particular religion. What some people call God he calls consciousness.

Great observation and summary.

One could say he wants us all to have Christ consciousness and world peace starts with the individual. By working with anger, jealousy, pettiness, which is what he calls the ego, we become more conscious.

Yes, it seems like that is what he wants and how he thinks we could go about it.

I have a question about Christ consciousness. Supposedly Christ was killed for his consciousness. Does this hold people back from trying for higher consciousness? How many can't see that Christ's death was a metaphor for letting parts of yourself die off so higher consciousness can evolve?

If we assume Jesus was killed for his consciousness, we could ask ourselves why are WE believing that? What we see (observe) is a reflection of our own beliefs manifested in the world. I can follow that thought, that this perspective could hold some back from realizing themselves, even unconsciously.

Seeing Christ's death as a metaphor for something else is just putting a different label on it...as Tolle puts it. What we individually perceive might be completely different from person to person. Some might not see him as dead, or risen.

The problem I see (my belief LOL) is that people can't grasp the concept that there is no God outside of them.

If God is all there is, then God takes up all space. How could there be an evolving God? An evolving you, me, world? Higher consciousness/Lower consciousness? Evolution? God does not change, we are the changeless beyond space and time. Evolution exists in time.... in space....in consciousness.

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I think Tolle would say that consciousness (God) is formless, nameless. Ego is attached to form (emotions, thoughts, thiings, people, etc.) and therefore, separates us from consciousness (God). Form cannot be in touch with the formless. The formless is in all of us and can never be damaged by anything. When we become aware of ego and how it attaches to form, roles, etc. we get glimpses of the formless. When our thoughts (form, ego) are not taking over our minds and we are aware of being attached to form as ego, we become aware, we start to awaken. In this way we are evolving.

When we label everything and everyone we touch or see this is ego being attached to form. When we try to label the formless (consciousness, God) we are separating ourselves from the formless. So, I would assume Tolle is saying that labeling God would be separating us from God.

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Wow, I'm confused, LK.

In the first post I quoted above, you talk about the park, the sun, the breeze, the ponds, etc. etc. To me, those things are FORMS and LABELS. In the second post quoted above you say, "Ego is attached to form (emotions, thoughts, thiings, people, etc.) and therefore, separates us from consciousness (God). Form cannot be in touch with the formless." And you also said: "When we label everything and everyone we touch or see this is ego being attached to form."

So on the one hand you seem to be saying that taking a walk and enjoying the things you saw and experienced was a good thing because you said you were in the present moment and that it was a joyful experience. I agree with this by the way. It's how I experience God daily.

Then you seem to say that form separates us from God. You also seem to say that labeling things is ego being attached to form, which you seem to say is not good. However, how can a label for a breeze make it part of ego? Why, if you love the park, is it ego to label it? I just don't get it.

And finally, if you believe that God is all there is, isn't God also the park and the breeze and the sun, etc. etc.? So how can enjoying them be ego based? And why has ego got anything to do with them?

I certainly understand your first post, but your second post really does have me puzzled as to how it relates to the first. And I truly mean this post, LK, I'm not trying to be smart. Help!!

Maggie

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How do I tell you the first story without naming what I saw and where I was? I could have not told you the story at all. What I did was relate my story of being present.

If you can tell a story by not labeling what you saw, then show me how.

What I did in the park was have moments of clearing my thoughts and it brought me pure joy. I had moments of being present. I didn't I felt the Presence.

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LK,

I fully understand your first post and I understand the need to lable things. As you know from reading my book, I experience God's presence in many ways and in many things. But that wasn't really my question. Here's my question again, from my previous post. I'm still none the wiser.


Let me try to rephrase my question and see if that helps. Why does labeling things in form separate us from God, and why is labeling things ego being attached to form? To me, your description of your walk in the park is FULL of connection to God. You were experiencing and enjoying some of the many ways that God experesses him/her self. But why does it seem from your other post that labels, form and attachment to form is then something that is less than desireable.

I must have a mental block about this because I truly don't get the whole connection between that first post about the park and the later post about labels, form and ego.

Maggie

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I'm just repeating what is in A New Earth. Have you read the book? I can't explain it any better than I did above. I wouldn't say my walk in the park was a connection to God. When I was walking I wasn't labeling. I had to us labels to tell the story.

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Yes, LK, I have read the book. Guess I'll just have to remain in the dark about this.

Maggie

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Maggie, what did you get out of the book? Did it reflect your belief?

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