The Papacy is God's awesome Gift to his Church. It is at once the fulfillment of the office of the new testament prime minister second only to that of the Davidic King, and it is the visible sign of unity that has the honor to speak with Gods authority to proclaim truth, and pastor Christ universal Church. Amen!


Long live Papa Benedict!

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Roma locuta est causa finita est

The papacy has been an historical embarassment to the Church and the seat of some cruel men Athanasius, i do not see it as a visible sign of unity but as a major division between Catholicism and Christianity. We do not need authority to procliam truth, truth itself is our authority and we are commanded by Jesus to teach all nations - "thy word is truth"

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Thank your for your good hearted and honest response my brother. You make some great observations. The papacy has had a few rotten scoundrels in it seat in the past, especially in the middle ages and the Catholic church recognize that and even teaches us that. I learned that in grade school in my religion class in Catholic schools. So a few of them have been an embarrassment to the church. I would politely disagree with you though. The office of Papacy which was established by Jesus is what I meant was awesome and a great gift. Not necessarily the individual filling the shoes of that Holy office. In other words if Jesus establishes a office of Pope then the office is Holy and good but the people in it are not always. Scandal is always rampant in every church with its leaders and yes this also hit many Baptist Churches too. Remember that Peter, the First pope historically, was called by Jesus to this holy office(Matt 16:13-19) and to be the universal Shepherd of the early church on earth(Jn 21:15-18) and Yet Peter himself scandalized the apostles by Denying Christ 3 Times. Can you imagine if a Pope Denied Christ several times today how many people would say "Why should we follow this guy and his preaching"? Judas was also had been given the office of apostle and yet he betrayed Jesus. Jesus himself said that the church will consist of wheat and chaff, good and bad. So just because there have been a few rotten popes does not mean that it discredits the office of papacy in any way or else Peter would have been discredited as the early Leader of the church long ago, and yet the fathers of the Church pretty unanimously agreed that Peter his office was the early Leader and rock of the church.

I would also respectfully disagree with you and I would say that we do need a an Authority to proclaim truth. Yes you are right in the fact that, Jesus did command us to teach all nations. But for someone to be able to teach you need a teaching authority we call that a magisterium with, apostolic authority and roots to be called to teach and pastor. This is what the Pope is. this concept of teaching authority and leadership is Something that Jesus ands Paul both show in the bible. Jesus Directly shows this about Papal authority inn Matt 16 and other passages. And its also something that the early Church centuries 1-7 show quite clearly. After all we also needed someone to tell us what the bible is and what books are in it for Christians to believe. It was Pope Damasus I who first officially proclaimed this in 382 Ad at the council of Rome.

I hope that helps you understand our Catholic position better my good friend. As always you ask great questions and I love to dialgue with you on these issue. Take care and God bless you!

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasius

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Roma locuta est causa finita est

Athanasius,
Do you think Pope Benedict lives the life as Jesus lived it, taught it and would live it today? Don't you agree that as a "leader" of the Cathlic Church he could/should be able to demonstrate simular traits as seen in Jesus Christ, such as miracles?

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May your awareness be perfection

I have tried to refrain from responding to your posts, so far. Not that I do not find them interesting but, as a pagan, I thought it better to leave this discussion to RCs, and other Christians.

This one caught my eye, however, and I do not want to pass it over.

I think the papacy is one of the more amazing institutions in the world. The fact is, there are not that many 2000 years old institutions with a continuous history; there has to be something to anything that has survived so long...especially since there have been a number of incumbents who were less than great examples of human virtue, and not a few who were lacking in common sense.

Perhaps your god has, indeed, blessed the papacy. A couple of the incumbents, in my lifetime, I have found inspiring as individuals, John XXIII, and John Paul I, in particular. I think they are lights to all humanity. (I did not get JP II, in a major way, but I know that he inspired many others; I accept that is my failure of vision. I like some things that Benedict has done, so far, although some certainly raise a few eyebrows.)

Still, if the papacy is a light to the world, it is one that sputters and flickers a good deal, even if it has never quite gone out. That's certainly better than it could be... one thing we do not need is more darkness.

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Grassaf, Eolas

To respect the Pope is to respect the Catholic church. I have more respect for that Catholics than for any other Christian church that I have encountered. (However, I have not yet encountered Rosecrucians or Jesuits). They seem to retain so many aspects of the original Christianity. I have suspected that behind closed doors, there is enlightenment going on, and those who are truly interested are allowed to enter the inner sanctum. I just hope I'm right about my suspicion. I am impressed that Teresa of Avila was a Catholic, as well as St. John of the Cross, for instance.

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I, folks. I'm just visiting. The prayer stick is coming along, but like everything, it is far more complicated than when I started. I'll be supporting 5 different languages, 6 different religions, in addition to several audio routines.

Thank you my friend for the kind words. You have many good points. It is great to meet you. God bless you always.

In Christ the King through Mary the Queen,
Athanasius

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Roma locuta est causa finita est

Hi John, Its nice to meet you! Thanks very much for the kind words about the Catholic Church. Rosicrucian's are not Catholic or Christian at that matter. We consider them Gnostic and to a Catholic the Gnosticism was a heresy. The Jesuits on the other hand are a official order of priest in the Catholic faith. The head of the theology department of my Grad school(If I get accepted) is a wonderful Jesuit and friend of the Current Pope. Fr Mitch Pacwa is also a great Jesuit scholar. I had a chance to meet him several times and went to one of his scholarly debates. Teresa of Avila is great and St John of the Cross is also awesome. Thanks again for the kind words my friend. God bless you always.

In Jesus through Mary,
Athanasius

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Roma locuta est causa finita est

I do believe the current pope tries to live a holy life in example of Christ. I do not think that he should or even will have healing powers or miraculous powers. Although some priest do have them(Padre Pio had them), the office of Papacy was never gaurenteed such things. The only things guaranteed to the office of Pope is the Keys and power to bind and loose(Matt 16:13-19) Which give him authority to speak and guide the church and protect his doctrinal decisions when he speaks from the Chair(Which is extremely rare) , not miracles.

I hope that helps. Good question!

God bless you
In Mary's Mantle,
Athanasius

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Roma locuta est causa finita est

Yes, thank you. That would explain why the pope does not need to understand the true teachings of
Jesus Christ in order to be a pope : (

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May your awareness be perfection