Interfaithforums.com  

Go Back   Interfaithforums.com > Interfaith Forums > Abrahamic Religions > Christianity

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
(#171 (permalink))
Old

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,847
Join Date: May 2010
Karma: 158
EAGLE has disabled reputation
20th May 2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoHeathen View Post
Yes, but you're not trying to push that belief as science or Absolute Truth For Everyone <tm> or trying to say that evolution is bunk.

Big difference.

Neither do I push my belief as science, and neither should you....

Richard Dawkins said, "Evolution has been observed. It's just that it hasn't been observed while it's happening." Is that not an amazing statement and considered very scientific?


Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Reply With Quote
(#172 (permalink))
Old
Tenbones's Avatar

The Dude abides
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,093
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tenbonistan
Karma: 2140
Tenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond repute
20th May 2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
Neither do I push my belief as science, and neither should you....

Richard Dawkins said, "Evolution has been observed. It's just that it hasn't been observed while it's happening." Is that not an amazing statement and considered very scientific?
It's not amazing. It's a simple commonly known fact. Evolution has been observed. A LOT. Thousands if not millions of times. Every single trait of every single creature and plant is a testament to this common observation.

What has not been seen is the precise point where such adaptations have taken place under the scrutiny of direct observation.

So precisely what are you intimating by making this comment?

Please explain how "God is more plausible" <--- your words. I'm certainly curious.
Reply With Quote
(#173 (permalink))
Old

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,847
Join Date: May 2010
Karma: 158
EAGLE has disabled reputation
20th May 2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist View Post
Yes, well to me, God is completely and utterly implausible. When I was a kid, they taught me that "God sees the little sparrow fall." And that "Jesus loves the little children, all the little children of the world."

And it occurred to me then, that if God is watching as that sparrow falls, and with all the power in the world does nothing about it -- then as far as that sparrow is concerned, God us utterly useless. And Jesus, for all his vaunted power, did nothing for me, or the millions of other suffering and dying children around the world. And I concluded then and there that what I was told was a lie. And I had the "evidence."

And yet you claim that God stepped in and miraculously cured members of your family. Why? What possible reason could God have to do your family such a big favour, and leave thousands of children to perish in abject misery -- each and every single day?

You think that sounds "plausible" to me? Wrong -- it sounds like absolute, utter rubbish to me.

You want to do a "God experiment?" Try working on that. Ought to be simple enough.
God is a spirit, you do not seem to look further than your body, no wonder you are so sad. Do you really expect God to think like you, wow, that amazes me. I believe God has a plan and a will, what He feels is just and righteous is what matters. It is because of man's disobedience that we are in this fallen world............

Psalm 14:1, NIV. "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
Proverbs 29:11, NIV. "A fool gives full bent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control."
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!


Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Reply With Quote
(#174 (permalink))
Old

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,847
Join Date: May 2010
Karma: 158
EAGLE has disabled reputation
20th May 2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbones View Post
It's not amazing. It's a simple commonly known fact. Evolution has been observed. A LOT. Thousands if not millions of times. Every single trait of every single creature and plant is a testament to this common observation.

What has not been seen is the precise point where such adaptations have taken place under the scrutiny of direct observation.

So precisely what are you intimating by making this comment?

Please explain how "God is more plausible" <--- your words. I'm certainly curious.
How do you observe something you cannot see happening? If you look at things that happened in the past, then you should keep with History and not science.
You say evolution has been observed, but no one has actually seen it happen according to Richard Dawkins, so who observed evolution? 1violin


Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Reply With Quote
(#175 (permalink))
Old
evangelicalhumanist's Avatar

Seeking intelligent life
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 10,672
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Karma: 5582
evangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond repute
20th May 2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
God is a spirit, you do not seem to look further than your body, no wonder you are so sad.
Okay, show me a free-floating spirit. Anywhere at all, please. Show me, just for example, any spirit which has given up its body.

Quote:
Do you really expect God to think like you, wow, that amazes me. I believe God has a plan and a will, what He feels is just and righteous is what matters. It is because of man's disobedience that we are in this fallen world............
Honestly, what a hopelessly idiotic remark!

Perhaps you've forgotten -- I don't believe in God, and therefore I don't expect that which doesn't exist to think at all.
Quote:
Psalm 14:1, NIV. "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
Proverbs 29:11, NIV. "A fool gives full bent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control."
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
Quoting scripture at me is not worth your effort, because all I see is words written by humans, and I have a very large source of other words that I prefer, likewise written by humans, which I often find far more wise. Many of my sources, for example, avoid threats of eternal damnation. You might think such threats wise and sweet of your demented deity, but I find them quite repulsive.


evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.
Reply With Quote
(#176 (permalink))
Old
metis's Avatar

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 8,882
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Detroit & Marquette areas, Michigan
Karma: 2423
metis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond reputemetis has a reputation beyond repute
Judaism 20th May 2011, 06:53 PM

EAGLE, let me recommend you read this very carefully: Speciation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shalom


The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.-- Einstein
Reply With Quote
(#177 (permalink))
Old

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,847
Join Date: May 2010
Karma: 158
EAGLE has disabled reputation
20th May 2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by metis View Post
EAGLE, let me recommend you read this very carefully: Speciation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shalom
Hi Metis,

Is speciation evolution? The reason I am asking is that it does not seem to produce new genetic information.....it is simply an assortment of genes inherited from the two parent species, so the flies will still be flies.


Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Reply With Quote
(#178 (permalink))
Old
Tenbones's Avatar

The Dude abides
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,093
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tenbonistan
Karma: 2140
Tenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond repute
20th May 2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
How do you observe something you cannot see happening? If you look at things that happened in the past, then you should keep with History and not science.
You say evolution has been observed, but no one has actually seen it happen according to Richard Dawkins, so who observed evolution? 1violin
It's called an observational inference. You make enough observations with your five senses, you make inferences, you test them, you make more observations, you make more inferences, you make more tests.

You seriously don't understand this basic principle? I smell troll-dung.

So as a mental exercise - let's try it your way!

So you believe in Adam and Eve as the progenitor of all humanity. So they're together, they get tossed out of Eden, they end up in the wilds of the world. They make Cain and Abel (and Seth). Cain kills Abel (in the literal sense) and is cursed by God. But somewhere out there he gets a wife... where did she come from?

Where's the science and logic you can apply to this that you accuse Richard Dawkins? Unless you're implying you're not using science (which is what we've been telling you for years) - and you're using folklore in place of history.

As for who observed Evolution? You do. You just choose to ignore it and/or you're incapable of understanding it. You decide.

http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/Image16.gif

See? you see it. Make some observational inferences.
Reply With Quote
(#179 (permalink))
Old
Tenbones's Avatar

The Dude abides
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,093
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tenbonistan
Karma: 2140
Tenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond reputeTenbones has a reputation beyond repute
20th May 2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
Hi Metis,

Is speciation evolution? The reason I am asking is that it does not seem to produce new genetic information.....it is simply an assortment of genes inherited from the two parent species, so the flies will still be flies.
Yet again, your lack of understanding of genetics, biology, and science in general is shining brightly here.

If speciation isn't evolution: you realize you're calling yourself an ape, essentially. As you're claiming the separation of species isn't evolution, and since we have the same genetic ancestors as other simians - you're saying their is no difference.

And producing "new" genetic information isn't as necessary as in how ones genes are configured. That's the entire point of natural selection, alongside gene-flow and gene-migration which dictates how species evolve over time.

Shall I recommend a basic biology book for you? They're pretty easy to find - if you live near a real university, i'm sure they have re-sellers for textbooks. Or you know, you could use that God-given miracle - the interwebs.
Reply With Quote
(#180 (permalink))
Old

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,847
Join Date: May 2010
Karma: 158
EAGLE has disabled reputation
20th May 2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbones View Post
It's called an observational inference. You make enough observations with your five senses, you make inferences, you test them, you make more observations, you make more inferences, you make more tests.
you test them and make more tests, then why need inference? It should be fact and not a reasoning to make a conclusion. That conclusion can be wrong and has been in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbones View Post
You seriously don't understand this basic principle? I smell troll-dung.
Are you a troll, because you seem to know and smell troll-dung....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbones View Post
So as a mental exercise - let's try it your way!

So you believe in Adam and Eve as the progenitor of all humanity. So they're together, they get tossed out of Eden, they end up in the wilds of the world. They make Cain and Abel (and Seth). Cain kills Abel (in the literal sense) and is cursed by God. But somewhere out there he gets a wife... where did she come from?
Hahahahahaha, the old useless debunking question which is as old as the mountains........we know in that time incest was allowed by God so maybe you need to ask yourself how many daughters did Adam and Eve have, unfortunately very few women were mentioned in the Scriptures, so the answer to your question is that there is a very good probability that Cain took one of his sisters. Adam did become more than 800 years old you know.....you can make many babies in that time.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbones View Post
Where's the science and logic you can apply to this that you accuse Richard Dawkins? Unless you're implying you're not using science (which is what we've been telling you for years) - and you're using folklore in place of history.
Not sure what you are asking, but what you call folklore I call the Word of God, you have the right to think of it whatever you want it makes no difference to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenbones View Post
As for who observed Evolution? You do. You just choose to ignore it and/or you're incapable of understanding it. You decide.
No I don't, I have never ever seen a dog produce a cat or anything like that with my eyes, evolution seem to be dead immediately when they came up with the theory, is that not weird....suddenly we cannot see it happening anymore, but for millions and millions of years it was happening all over the place!

http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/SM3/Image16.gif

See? you see it. Make some observational inferences.[/QUOTE] Nah, I don't waste my time, I will leave that for you, I am at peace.


Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





INTERFAITHFORUMS aSTORE





GoDaddy.com - World's No.1 Domain Name Registrar






vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright 2005-2014 Interfaithforums.com. All Rights Reserved


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0