Interfaithforums.com  

Go Back   Interfaithforums.com > Debate Forum > General Debate
General Debate Debate any subject.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Misunderstanding probability
(#1 (permalink))
Old

Male Goddess
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 619
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rural Minnesota--go figure...
Karma: 320
flitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the rough
Misunderstanding probability - 8th February 2010, 12:35 AM

The NFC won the coin toss in the Superbowl tonight. The commentators were quick to announce that the NFC has won 13 years in a row, at odds of greater than 8100 to 1.

The pre-test probability of tonight's result was 0.5 (1 to 1; 50%). The post test probability is 1.0 (100%). My point:

It is meaningless to speak of a series of past events in terms of probabilities as if the events had not yet occurred. Someone might opine that the odds of someone named Flitzerbiest, typing a message on probabilities with right-hand dominance from somewhere in rural Minnesota must be millions to one. This fallacy is that these things have already occurred, and probability is therefore irrelevant.

And, speaking of relevance, it was this sort of shoddy presentation of probability, which I first encountered in Josh McDowell's Evidence that Demands a Verdict which led me, as an aspiring Christian apologist, to suspect that the evidentiary case for Christianity was actually quite weak indeed. The rest, as they say, is history, the odds of which are 100%.
Reply With Quote
(#2 (permalink))
Old
evangelicalhumanist's Avatar

Seeking intelligent life
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 5,133
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Karma: 2314
evangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond reputeevangelicalhumanist has a reputation beyond repute
8th February 2010, 01:08 AM

I agree. Most of us normal human beings don't get probability at all, and are often completely baffled by simple stuff (if there are 26 people in a room, the odds are slightly better than half that two of them will share a birthday!)

It's like an ad I've seen on TV recently, with a couple of actuaries discussing the odds of various things happening on the street in front of them. Suddenly, a man riding an ostrich goes by - and one of them asks the other, "what are the chances of that?" And the second, wisely answers, "100% --- NOW."


evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.
Reply With Quote
(#3 (permalink))
Old
SteveC's Avatar

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 675
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Garden State & Ocean State
Karma: 70
SteveC will become famous soon enough
8th February 2010, 03:02 AM

Sorry you had a tough night, Eric. Join the rest of us in waiting for next year.


You are not gold, that, hidden in the earth,
Your friends should care to dig you up again!
Reply With Quote
(#4 (permalink))
Old

Male Goddess
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 619
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rural Minnesota--go figure...
Karma: 320
flitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the rough
8th February 2010, 03:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
Sorry you had a tough night, Eric. Join the rest of us in waiting for next year.
I had a tough night two weeks ago.
Reply With Quote
(#5 (permalink))
Old
SteveC's Avatar

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 675
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Garden State & Ocean State
Karma: 70
SteveC will become famous soon enough
8th February 2010, 03:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by flitzerbiest View Post
I had a tough night two weeks ago.
I thought you were an Indy fan or was that your son?


You are not gold, that, hidden in the earth,
Your friends should care to dig you up again!
Reply With Quote
(#6 (permalink))
Old

Male Goddess
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 619
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rural Minnesota--go figure...
Karma: 320
flitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the rough
8th February 2010, 03:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
I thought you were an Indy fan or was that your son?
Vikings.
Reply With Quote
(#7 (permalink))
Old
SteveC's Avatar

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 675
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Garden State & Ocean State
Karma: 70
SteveC will become famous soon enough
8th February 2010, 04:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by flitzerbiest View Post
Vikings.
So, there was never a reason for me to dislike you? I've been harboring all this resentment for nothing?


You are not gold, that, hidden in the earth,
Your friends should care to dig you up again!
Reply With Quote
(#8 (permalink))
Old

Male Goddess
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 619
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rural Minnesota--go figure...
Karma: 320
flitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the roughflitzerbiest is a jewel in the rough
8th February 2010, 04:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
So, there was never a reason for me to dislike you? I've been harboring all this resentment for nothing?
No, that's not true. This really is my own hair...
Reply With Quote
(#9 (permalink))
Old
SteveC's Avatar

Senior Member
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 675
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Garden State & Ocean State
Karma: 70
SteveC will become famous soon enough
8th February 2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by flitzerbiest View Post
No, that's not true. This really is my own hair...
Right, I forgot about that, you &*$%#* ^%&%$$# @%$()#%* !!


You are not gold, that, hidden in the earth,
Your friends should care to dig you up again!
Reply With Quote
(#10 (permalink))
Old
modus_tollens's Avatar

The I behind the I
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,424
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wonderland
Karma: 443
modus_tollens is just really nicemodus_tollens is just really nicemodus_tollens is just really nicemodus_tollens is just really nicemodus_tollens is just really nice
14th February 2010, 11:10 PM

Reminds me of a parable aimed at reinforcing the concept of independence. The odds of getting on a plane that has on it a passenger with a bomb are pretty slim. Moreover, the odds of getting on a place that has on it two passengers with bombs are even slimmer. So based on that, someone brings their own bomb, as that will make the odds of someone else on the plane with a bomb very slim.


There is another, related, fallacy that correlation implies causation automatically.


peace for all
love for all
bliss for all

...may your journey be graceful...

If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On










vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright © 2005-2009 Interfaithforums.com. All Rights Reserved


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0