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28th September 2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoHeathen View Post
Signing the marriage certificate does not violate anyone's religious rights. As far as I understand it, the city clerk's or other official's signature is acknowledging that the couple before him or her meet the legal requirements for marriage. So this clerk, in having to do her job, isn't being asked to approve of the marriage, like it, or believe it is right. All she is required to do is acknowledge that it is legal according to the laws of the state. That isn't a religious issue.

If she can't say yes, this is legal, and sign her name to it, then this woman should be fired.
That's it in a nutshell. One is not being asked to ignore their conscious, they are being asked to comply with the law of the state.

On the bright side (for her anyway) if she does get fired for it, she'll become the next celebrity on the American Christian martyr circuit.


If you approach the Gaelic gods with 'I'm not worthy', They're going to reply to you with 'Then come back when you are.'
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29th September 2011, 12:01 AM

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Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
If you truly want to throw that as an excuse, be my guest, we all will answer to God.
BTW. did God make a Covenant with man or with nature?
Did God make a covenant with nature? I was under the impression that you thought God MADE nature -- and that "He saw that it was good!" And the plain fact of the matter is this -- nature abounds in same-sex pairings. So if nature itself, the creation of God, has homosexuality all through it, then are you suggesting that God made some "little errors?"

You might, as I've suggested before, read Bruce Bagemihl's "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity," or perhaps "Conundrum: The Evolution of Homosexuality" by N.J. Peters

But for your amusement, here is a partial list of creatures in which same-sex behaviour is observed, all of it in natural settings by creatures left entirely to their own devices and choices. If God hates it so badly, you'd think He'd have done a better job! On the other hand, if you think perhaps "some other god" had a hand in creation, this might be the time to tell us.

Selected mammals from the full list:

African Elephant, Brown Bear, Brown Rat, Buffalo, African Lion, Caribou, Cat (domestic), Cheetah, Common Dolphin, Orca, Common Marmoset, Common Raccoon, Dog (domestic), European Bison

Selected birds from the full list:

Chicken (Domestic), Common Gull, Emu, King Penguin, Seagull

Fish

Blackstripe topminnow, Bluegill Sunfish, Char, Grayling, European Bitterling, Green swordtail, Guiana leaffish, Houting Whitefish, Jewel Fish, Least Darter (Microperca punctulata), Mouthbreeding Fish, Salmon, Southern platyfish, Ten-spined stickleback, Three-spined stickleback,

Reptiles

Anole, Bearded Dragon, Broad-headed Skink, Checkered Whiptail Lizard, Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard, Common Ameiva, Common Garter Snake, Cuban Green Anole, Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard, Desert Tortoise, Fence Lizard, Five-lined Skink, Gopher (Pine) Snake, Green Anole, Inagua Curlytail Lizard, Jamaican Giant Anole, Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard, Largehead Anole, Mourning Gecko, Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard, Red Diamond Rattlesnake, Red-tailed Skink, Side-blotched Lizard, Speckled Rattlesnake (hopefully very carefully!), Water Moccasin, Western rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis), Western Banded Gecko, Whiptail Lizard, Wood Turtle

Amphibians

Appalachian Woodland Salamander, Black-spotted Frog, Mountain Dusky Salamander, Tengger Desert Toad

Insects and other invertebrates

This list is too long to include, but it includes a wide variety of worms, weevils, wasps, spiders, butterflies and moths, dragonflies, bees, and on and on. There are literally hundreds!

(Of course, you might also conclude that God gave all those creatures "free choice," but the way you use that, it would seem that He must also then have provided them with immortal souls to be at perilo due to the choices made. Are you admitting that?)


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29th September 2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoHeathen View Post
Signing the marriage certificate does not violate anyone's religious rights. As far as I understand it, the city clerk's or other official's signature is acknowledging that the couple before him or her meet the legal requirements for marriage. So this clerk, in having to do her job, isn't being asked to approve of the marriage, like it, or believe it is right. All she is required to do is acknowledge that it is legal according to the laws of the state. That isn't a religious issue.

If she can't say yes, this is legal, and sign her name to it, then this woman should be fired.
CH, why do you so often answer so much better and more succinctly then some of the rest of us? Well done!


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29th September 2011, 03:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoHeathen View Post
Signing the marriage certificate does not violate anyone's religious rights. As far as I understand it, the city clerk's or other official's signature is acknowledging that the couple before him or her meet the legal requirements for marriage. So this clerk, in having to do her job, isn't being asked to approve of the marriage, like it, or believe it is right. All she is required to do is acknowledge that it is legal according to the laws of the state. That isn't a religious issue.

If she can't say yes, this is legal, and sign her name to it, then this woman should be fired.
That says it all.
I couldn´t agree more.

Maya
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29th September 2011, 04:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
Well, they will have to get someone in her place who is not a follower of Christ, she does not accept same sex marriages, because her God does not accept it.

I believe if a job forces a believer to do that which is an abomination to their God, they should either leave or stand on their beliefs.... as far as I can tell, she did not start her duty with the knowing that she will be issuing marriage licenses to gay people, if she did she might not have applied for the job in the first place.
But she wasn't given the job with the stipulations it would entail following her religious beliefs. She just assumed the world would never turn. Well it did so tough cookies. She has no inherent right to demand her job follow her religious commandments. Her job is about doing something lawfully not religiously.


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29th September 2011, 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist View Post
Did God make a covenant with nature? I was under the impression that you thought God MADE nature -- and that "He saw that it was good!" And the plain fact of the matter is this -- nature abounds in same-sex pairings. So if nature itself, the creation of God, has homosexuality all through it, then are you suggesting that God made some "little errors?"

You might, as I've suggested before, read Bruce Bagemihl's "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity," or perhaps "Conundrum: The Evolution of Homosexuality" by N.J. Peters

But for your amusement, here is a partial list of creatures in which same-sex behaviour is observed, all of it in natural settings by creatures left entirely to their own devices and choices. If God hates it so badly, you'd think He'd have done a better job! On the other hand, if you think perhaps "some other god" had a hand in creation, this might be the time to tell us.

Selected mammals from the full list:

African Elephant, Brown Bear, Brown Rat, Buffalo, African Lion, Caribou, Cat (domestic), Cheetah, Common Dolphin, Orca, Common Marmoset, Common Raccoon, Dog (domestic), European Bison

Selected birds from the full list:

Chicken (Domestic), Common Gull, Emu, King Penguin, Seagull

Fish

Blackstripe topminnow, Bluegill Sunfish, Char, Grayling, European Bitterling, Green swordtail, Guiana leaffish, Houting Whitefish, Jewel Fish, Least Darter (Microperca punctulata), Mouthbreeding Fish, Salmon, Southern platyfish, Ten-spined stickleback, Three-spined stickleback,

Reptiles

Anole, Bearded Dragon, Broad-headed Skink, Checkered Whiptail Lizard, Chihuahuan Spotted Whiptail Lizard, Common Ameiva, Common Garter Snake, Cuban Green Anole, Desert Grassland Whiptail Lizard, Desert Tortoise, Fence Lizard, Five-lined Skink, Gopher (Pine) Snake, Green Anole, Inagua Curlytail Lizard, Jamaican Giant Anole, Laredo Striped Whiptail Lizard, Largehead Anole, Mourning Gecko, Plateau Striped Whiptail Lizard, Red Diamond Rattlesnake, Red-tailed Skink, Side-blotched Lizard, Speckled Rattlesnake (hopefully very carefully!), Water Moccasin, Western rattlesnake (Crotalus viridis), Western Banded Gecko, Whiptail Lizard, Wood Turtle

Amphibians

Appalachian Woodland Salamander, Black-spotted Frog, Mountain Dusky Salamander, Tengger Desert Toad

Insects and other invertebrates

This list is too long to include, but it includes a wide variety of worms, weevils, wasps, spiders, butterflies and moths, dragonflies, bees, and on and on. There are literally hundreds!

(Of course, you might also conclude that God gave all those creatures "free choice," but the way you use that, it would seem that He must also then have provided them with immortal souls to be at perilo due to the choices made. Are you admitting that?)
"Even if some animals do engage in homosexual activity purely for pleasure, their behavior still serves as an incomplete model--and an incomplete explanation--for human behavior. "In our society homosexuality means a principal or exclusive orientation," says psychology professor Frans de Waal of the Yerkes Primate Center in Atlanta. "Among animals it's just nonreproductive sexual behavior." The Gay Side of Nature - TIME

I guess what animals do is ok for man to right Allen? So eating your kids are ok, killing and eating your husband when you used him is ok? raping your kids when you feel like it is fine?
Where is your sense of morality? God says no don't do it, you say there is no God, so I will do what I want, nobody can tell you what to do right?

The statistics show that the homosexual lifestyle is not healthy, so why support that which is unhealthy by law? Does that make sense to any rational thinking person? Why did they make a law against working with asbestos? because people die younger on the long run. The statistics show that homosexuals in general die many years younger than their straight counterparts.....

I got an article for you from a gay news service(Pinknews), hopefully this will hold water better than any other source....

American scientist: gays die younger than smokers - PinkNews.co.uk

There seems to be not much positive to write on this issue.

Shalom


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Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
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29th September 2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geshtinnanna View Post
But she wasn't given the job with the stipulations it would entail following her religious beliefs. She just assumed the world would never turn. Well it did so tough cookies. She has no inherent right to demand her job follow her religious commandments. Her job is about doing something lawfully not religiously.
I guess if gays can stand on their rights she can do the same? If they have a problem with her then they should remove her from her duties. I believe this will happen more and more when you force certain changes with religious affect on societies which are not in favor of gay marriages no matter what the law says.


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29th September 2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoHeathen View Post
Signing the marriage certificate does not violate anyone's religious rights.
She might feel by signing it she also condones it.

Quote:
As far as I understand it, the city clerk's or other official's signature is acknowledging that the couple before him or her meet the legal requirements for marriage. So this clerk, in having to do her job, isn't being asked to approve of the marriage, like it, or believe it is right. All she is required to do is acknowledge that it is legal according to the laws of the state. That isn't a religious issue.
It is clear she feels otherwise.

Quote:
If she can't say yes, this is legal, and sign her name to it, then this woman should be fired.
Maybe or get someone else to do that administration.


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29th September 2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
"Even if some animals do engage in homosexual activity purely for pleasure, their behavior still serves as an incomplete model--and an incomplete explanation--for human behavior. "In our society homosexuality means a principal or exclusive orientation," says psychology professor Frans de Waal of the Yerkes Primate Center in Atlanta. "Among animals it's just nonreproductive sexual behavior." The Gay Side of Nature - TIME

I guess what animals do is ok for man to right Allen? So eating your kids are ok, killing and eating your husband when you used him is ok? raping your kids when you feel like it is fine?
Where is your sense of morality? God says no don't do it, you say there is no God, so I will do what I want, nobody can tell you what to do right?

The statistics show that the homosexual lifestyle is not healthy, so why support that which is unhealthy by law? Does that make sense to any rational thinking person? Why did they make a law against working with asbestos? because people die younger on the long run. The statistics show that homosexuals in general die many years younger than their straight counterparts.....

I got an article for you from a gay news service(Pinknews), hopefully this will hold water better than any other source....

American scientist: gays die younger than smokers - PinkNews.co.uk

There seems to be not much positive to write on this issue.

Shalom
Maybe there's not much positive to write, Eagle. There's not much positive to write about a lot of genetic illnesses, either. But here's the stupid deal -- when you inherit a genetic illness, you don't get to choose to change into a person who doesn't have it. You live with it as best you can.

And it's the same for someone who's orientation is gay. We live with it as best we can. I know you'd rather we just killed ourselves and made the world "safer" for cretins such as yourself, but I'm afraid I'm not prepared to oblige you in that.

When you learn the smallest bit of respect for me, I might consider returning the favour. But if you are going to insist on bringing up all the garbage you can find, expect me to respond in kind.

Oh, and your article is really unprofessionally prepared, and ignores a very great deal of important data -- which I'm not going to bother going into since I know all about your proclivities when it comes to ignoring anything you don't like and heading off to the internet to find another support to stand on.

You really are not a very nice person, are you? Are you typical of Christians, do you thing? Is the crap you say really indicative of "love?"


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29th September 2011, 01:12 PM

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Originally Posted by EAGLE View Post
I guess if gays can stand on their rights she can do the same? If they have a problem with her then they should remove her from her duties. I believe this will happen more and more when you force certain changes with religious affect on societies which are not in favor of gay marriages no matter what the law says.
What if she was Catholic, Eagle? What if a couple who were both divorced from previous spouses came to her for a license, and she refused to give sign it because her church doens't support divorce? What if she didn't believe that Christians should marry Jews? Should she be permitted to refuse a license to a Jewish girl and a Christian man?

Or is it only the people you don't like?


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