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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23rd December 2005, 11:40 PM
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What Side Would God Take?

Patriots, loyalists, and pacifists - of the American Revolution believed they were following God's will, using the Bible for support. What side do you think God would take? How could they all believe they were following God's will?
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Old 24th December 2005, 01:17 AM
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They CAN all be following God's will, as the Bible is open to all sorts of interpretations, being a living document. However, God would probably not take sides, but there are some of God's lesson in each stance.
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Old 28th December 2005, 12:00 AM
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who is to say that the whole war...wasn't G-d's plan
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Old 28th December 2005, 01:31 AM
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Bob Dylan said it best

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.
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Old 28th December 2005, 01:56 AM
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Taphophilia will become famous soon enough
I am a US History buff and I have to say the individuals who were the most influencial in forming of the government did not subscribe to Christianity or the Bible.

Our most influential Founding Fathers broke away from traditional religious thinking. The ideas of the Great Enlightenment that began in Europe had begun to sever the chains of monarchical theocracy. These heretical European ideas spread throughout early America. Instead of relying on faith, people began to use reason and science as their guide. The humanistic philosophical writers of the Enlightenment, such as Locke, Rousseau, and Voltaire, had greatly influenced our Founding Fathers.

Patrick Henry was indeed a Christian and made many statements suggesting that our nation was founded on the belief in God, and that it was important to acknowledge God in civic affairs, but Henry lost the battle to put religion in the Constitution. It is important to note that he was a anti-federalist, and vigorously opposed the Constitution when Virginia discussed ratification.

Much of the myth of Washington's alleged Christianity came from Mason Weems influential book, "Life of Washington." Weems, a Christian minister portrayed Washington as a devote Christian, yet Washington's own diaries show that he rarely attended Church.

Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears. He rarely spoke about his religion, but his Freemasonry experience points to a belief in Deism. Washington's initiation occurred at the Fredericksburg Lodge on November 4, 1752, later becoming a Master mason in 1799, and he remained a freemason until he died.

After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist."

When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment.

On his deathbed, Washington uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
From:George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr.,

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of ndependence

From "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."

To Paine belongs the honor of naming our country the United States of America. He was the first to use the name in print, and it was his own creation.

Although Benjamin Franklin received religious training, his nature forced him to rebel against the irrational tenets of his parents Christianity. His Autobiography revels his skepticism,

"My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of revelation itself.

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist."

John Adams said,

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed?"
Letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

In his, "A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" [1787-1788], Adams wrote:

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."

Even most Christians do not consider Thomas Jefferson a Christian. In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus.

In a letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787, he wrote,
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god."

Jefferson believed in materialism, reason, and science.

He never admitted to any religion but his own. In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, June 25, 1819, he wrote,

"You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."

Other quotes by Thomas Jefferson:

“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.”

“...that our civil rights have no dependence on religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics and geometry.”

“Christianity...[has become] the most perverted system that ever shone on man"

Last edited by Taphophilia : 28th December 2005 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 28th December 2005, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewscout
who is to say that the whole war...wasn't G-d's plan

I wonder why Jews cannot say "God" but "G-d", a few I've met and they all do the same thing. What's up with that? I think some faith, they actually are afraid to pronounce certain words, like "demons, evil spirits, satan, devil," etc...afraid demons or evil spirits would come and get them. Are you afraid that God will get you, too? Sorry, just curious, don't mean to offend you by any means.
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Old 28th December 2005, 05:02 AM
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Couldn't have typed it better myself Taphophilia.

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Old 1st January 2006, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaySee
Are you afraid that God will get you, too?
Not at all. It's simply that in Judaism, as in some other religions, the Name of the Creator is considered too holy to speak or spell out. To do so is considered dishonorable, if not blasphemy.
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Old 2nd January 2006, 12:17 PM
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What side do you think God would take?

The same side She always takes.

The In-Side.
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Old 2nd January 2006, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
Patriots, loyalists, and pacifists - of the American Revolution believed they were following God's will, using the Bible for support. What side do you think God would take? How could they all believe they were following God's will?

I believe that people can believe that they are doing as they feel that God wants them to do, but it is then a stretch to think that because of it, God is on their side. I don't think that God takes a side in such things. I dont see God as a being that is always meddling in the affairs of men, especially in groups of men. How God impacts us tends to be on a much more personal level, as it should, because that is the level that our spirituality is.
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