I really believe that 'G-d' is both the Eternal Spirit & Creator, therefore, the 'Creation' is what we are able to perceive and interact with in the 'Physical Realm'.

That said, in Genesis 2:15, 'G-d' give the very first Commandment(to Adam), and tells him to 'Keep and Till the Land', followed by 2:16 & 2:17, which offers two paths and their consequences.

It is my strong opinion(in fact I have not a doubt), that the Sin of all Sins is to violate what was said in Genesis 2:15, and as we see the crisis of what man has created upon this Earth thru our Industrial Pollutants that is suffocating the Body of 'G-d', and making this part of Him sick, we are literally committing the Sin of Sins, and that is why there will be the equivalent of an 'Immuno-Logical' response to our actions here, as 'G-d' tries to save 'part of HimSelf'.

The analogy I often give is how Lupus occurs within our body, or even when one cell 'goes bad', all biological systems will attempt to save the greater part of itself at the expense of the lesser part.

I can accept this 'immune response' to our actions, but what I can't accept is the blind foolishness, and total dis-respect that comes from those who act like the carefree litterer who tosses their garbage anywhere they just feel like, and not realizing that we are polluting 'G-d', as we pollute the his Gift of Life to us, and his Body(Mother Nature) which support us.

*If that is not the Sin of Sins, I dont' know what is.
Since Global Warming can end in either 'Heat Death', or even cause Earth to tilt on the axis of is Celestial Plane, we could also enter an Ice-Age(hence, as Hot as Hell, or as Cold as Hell). Each of those conditions 'Heal'.
These are two ways that 'G-ds' Immune System protects HimSelf at the expense of us.

The "sin" of all sins is to believe that there is such thing as sin. What we hate, resist or fear we still give attention to. Even the laws of the universe teach us that what we put our attention on (good or bad) energy flows to and creates. So even hating the war, litterers, the "sin" is focusing on it.

To be the change you want to see in this world, means to be the end result desired : )

__________________
May your awareness be perfection

What is 'Original Sin' then?

'Vivamis123', I wish you would look at my post in 'Spirituality' earlier, I have a feeling you could explain some of the concepts in there that I have difficulty with.

I just don't understand how I can witness this world about me, and take what you said above(and many others in the cognitive, philosophical, and spiritual arenas, have said the same), and believe that how I view my world going on about me, is somehow causing it to be that way.
*I must misunderstand this concept, because if you take that to it's logical extension, then somehow events in history(Past), relate to the 'Observor' of Today(present tense), and what is evolving in our world.

I think its also implying that if 'I think all is well', then everything I see on the television news(war, global warming, crime), is just not happening.
*I cannot accept that, so I must be misunderstanding this whole thing.

I'll also mention this. I mentioned this to a therapist(not a very good one), and they had no idea what I was referring, and their take is that this is some kind of a psychotic delusion of thought.
Possibly they have not studied things related to Integral Psychology that combines things related to the Spiritual Realm of things(I really don't know), but its 'New Age' like thinking, doesn't go over well in mainstream science, psychology, etc.

I really think I am the one confused on the concept, because there is Sin in this world, and my thinking is not causing this.

Dear Goldenratio,
I did read your post under spirituality.

I can relate to the pain you are feeling, seeing the suffering in this world. That is why I set out to find a way, satisfying to me to contribute to the end of suffering. I have found what I was looking for. You or others might not agree on my way, and that is o.k. Everyone is trying with the knowledge and understanding they have to make this world a better place. One way is not better or higher or more important.

If you have a specific question, I would be more than happy and try to answer it. To completely understand the concept on how we create in the physical realm our experience, I would suggest to you to watch the movie What the bleep do we know, the Secret or read books like Conversations with God or A Course in Miracles which is also being studied on this forum.

__________________
May your awareness be perfection

In my opinion, sin ('Original' or otherwise) is a religious metaphor that has been attached to bad behaviour to reify it and make it more of a threat to divine beings.

Why would anyone construct such an idea as sin? I think it was done to drive a wedge between individuals and their own spirituality (whatever 'spirituality' actually is), and between gods and mortals. Once this is done, it creates a social class of intercessors, many of whom unfortunately try to reinforce these separations rather than resolve them.
I understand, and I agree. And there is no reason we should accept such behaviour. We are dependent upon this planet for our very lives. To not take care of our own home is literally suicide.

There is no "Original Sin", in my opinion.

How could something which is 'perfect' (God) create something which is 'imperfect'?
And then proceed to order it's imperfect creation to struggle to reach 'perfection'.

I don't *personally* think that God/the One would stoop so low.


Peace, Love, & Light

__________________
"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

A good summation, Astreja, and i agree whole-heartedly.

A metaphor:
If we were created 'in sin', and are punished if we don't somehow become 'sinless', isn't that a bit like beating a dog for its' messing on the floor when you couldn't be bothered to take it for a walk?


Peace, Love, & Light

__________________
"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

Good metaphor Aged Hippy.

The cause of sin is the belief IN sin. Since that which God created is good, because God is perfect, there is no such thing as sin. But that does not mean "sin" can not be our experience and seen in our world. As you believe so be your experience and so be what appears outside of you.

Jesus said to a sick: now go and don't sin again. All Jesus knew from this person was that he was sick. Eventhough being sick is not a sin, it is the effect of a belief in sin.

It seems at first that there are many beliefs that are not based on the Truth, but there is actually only one: A belief in a separation from God/Spirit.

That is the great first "lie/belief" all others "hang" on this one law/belief.

__________________
May your awareness be perfection

I can answer that.
In one of my other posts, I mention that during my mystical experience I experienced myself as 'Adam' in the Garden.
The only way to explain that is that our D.N.A. memory is forever, and 'Cosmic D.N.A.' holds the 'conscious history'(Spiritual History) of Everything. The Universal 'construct', is "Memory" too.

That said(and this is a bit frightening to reveal), I also experienced what others have defined as 'The Fall'. Yes, very creepy to say the least.
Like I said though, I experienced something so powerful back in Nov. thru Dec., and few could comprehend it or support what I went thru.

This 'Fall'. Now I'm wondering if my experience could be understood thru a very good psychologist who understands 'archetypes', because I actually felt myself as the 'Fallen Angel'.
*That had to be the creepiest part of my whole experience, so I'm wondering how that could happen.
I know I was telling people that 'G-d' had taken me at the time, so that didn't go over well either with people at work(and my family too).

*The explanation is this:
'G-d' is perfect, and his bond is 'Trust'. The only way I can fathom this 'Fall', is that Lucifer broke this 'Trust', because he thought he was 'smarter' than 'G-d'.
This whole thing about 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil', was a theme I kept badgering people on a Physics site with(Physorg.com), and how their thirst for 'ultimate knowledge'(without looking at its consequences), was directly related to the negative side of the 'Ego', and that is why we have reached this most critical moment of time.
We still pay for this same Sin, whereby we don't look at the consequences of our actions, because the 'Ego knows no Measure'.

Even now, man tries to be like 'G-d' by trying to duplicate the Big Bang in these 'Super-Collider' experiments.
More so, they have something called 'Open Source Biology' where they are integrating different Species together as 'One'(thereby violating the most important thing that differentiates one thing from another....'Immunity').

And man has exploded the nucleur force, and now talks about 'hacking atoms' ;; again, Lucifer's Ego is still at work today.

*Now if 'Lucifer' is only metaphor for 'Ego'(the negative side), then the answer is that we must 'Heal' that Ego, and listen to 'G-d', not ourselves.


I must say, that experience I had was something beyond words, and I am almost glad that I am 'free' from that('Ego' rears its head); or am I?

I'll end with this, I wonder if I committed a Spiritual Sin by not keeping upon the path set out for me back then? I actually promised to 'G-d' that I would pay for 'Adam's Sin(I said this in Prayer), and although I attempted to get myself 'Perfect', it was making me come in conflict with external factors that in my opinion, were trying to thwart me(I can only describe this as 'evil entities').

And now, I don't have that strength of Spirit or Purpose.
I was literally telling people that 'I was going to Save the Planet'(the Messiah Complex I guess), and now I realize that it will take 'all of us together' to do so; its a collective effort).
*And it should be, because the Zohar claims we are 'All' paying for the Sin of Adam, and that we all are a reflection of Him.

Hi 'Vivamis123' ,

That is a favorite of mine(What the Bleep do we Know), but the book 'Beyond the Bleep', is even better.
'The Secret' has been strongly recommended to me(I think I know its concept), and the other two books have also been recommended, but I have been too wrapped up in other things.

As to a specific question, I'll save that for another day, right now I'm just very tired.
I watch the news and it frustrates me horribly. I probably have said this before, but I am a conspiracy theorist, and I have paid critical attention to what happened on Sept. 11th 2001.
It is absolutely critical that someone come forward from the U.S. intelligence community and reveal what happened on that day(and very soon).

There is no way that two buildings can fall at 'free fall speed' in their own foot print without 'help'.
No one speaks about the 4th brother Marvin Bush and his connections with the Security Surveillance firms(Stratesec & Securacom; which held the detail at the W.T.C. from 1993 to 2000) that ran both the W.T.C., and two of the airports that the hijackers boarded at.
Few people speak about the Interventionist Doctrine called the 'Project for a New American Century', and how it called for a 'Pearl Harbor Level Event Catalyst' to motivate the American Public toward their agenda in the Middle East(supposedly for Democratization).
*It was about 'Peak Oil', and Zignew Brezinski's book 'The Grand Chessboard' can explain this outside of 'conspiracy'.
Curiously, the 1975(or 76) flick 'Three Days of the Condor', had the exact theme about what would happen(and what would Americans want), if we knew the 'lights were going to go out'(per se); what would we want our Government to do?
I actually think that after the Oil Price shock of 1971 & 1973, there was a paper written on how to 'Secure our Future', and someone on the National Security Councils let the cat out of the bag(disagreeing with how to bring about our Intervention in the Middle East).
Hence, that movie was very prescient, or based upon a 'leak'.

I can only say this, this 'Oil' will be our death(the whole planet), unless someone has some common sense.

In my opininon, our President can become a real Hero, and announce on T.V. the dire emergency this planet faces from Global Warming, and put the brakes on that War now.

*Unfortunately, I don't think that will happen- but who knows.

Maybe a good Rabbi can explain to 'George', what I said about 'Maschiach' coming at the most critical moment of time, but I doubt they would believe it(my theory).