With the coming election in 2008 it seems that some of not most Candidates
are pushing to get back to our roots, meaning back to Christians principles. The problem is that America was not based on Christians values but yet people to this very day just sit there blindly & go with it. With most of our founding father being freemason & deist why do people insist on believing it? Haven’t they read the U.S. Constitution? It begins, "We the people," and contains no mention of "God" or "Christianity." There are references to "Nature's God but no mention of the Christian God.
Even the pilgrims that come over here were seeking religious freedom. These days people it seems that the majority of people here are Christians or so they claim. So if the majority of people claim to be Christians does that give them to right to make this country into whatever they see fit?

The words, "under God," did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, added them. So why are they still in it? Is this nation living a lie?

Your thoughts.....

__________________
I worship the old Gods because my heart tells me too not because I am told too.

"Under God" in and of itself does not imply Christianity. One possible explanation for "We the People" to continue the "spin" on the Christian Faith is that our Documents of Nationhood promise the freedom to whorship whom ever you choose. Only a "Christian" society would be so accepting.

Be glad, not mad.

__________________
Only Love Prevails,
Don

Throughout most of Christian history, Christian nations did all they could to disallow, torture, and even kill those who dared to follow another religion or who were atheists and agnostics. Did the Pilgrims and Puritans grant religious freedom to all, for example? most European states?

It is when we saw the development of more secular governments, such as that which happened in the U.S. and France, is when we saw the expansion of freedom of religion. Fortunately, most Christian nations now allow for freedom of religion.

BTW, Jewish and Buddhist states traditionally allowed freedom of religion once they were established.

Shalom,
Vern

[quote=wwwdlhow27] Only a "Christian" society would be so accepting.
QUOTE]

I would have to disagree with you there. Most Christians tend to push their own agenda when it come to politics or anything else for that matter. I live in the southeast & being anything other then a Christian here is not healthy. Something tells me if they could still hang people for not being anything but a Christian they would. Christianity is the only religion I know of that has not been though the ordeal that others religions have. Sure here & there you might hear a story that someone was told he or she can’t preach about religion because of where they are or something like that, but as a whole they know nothing of what the Jews went though or the Indians etc. I suspect that if this country was based on Christian values & ideas religion we would not have any religious freedom at all.

__________________
I worship the old Gods because my heart tells me too not because I am told too.

norwood,

I absolutely love your avatar by the way, What is it's history?

You're right, Christian history is mostly filled with oppression and killing of any who did not conform. With few exceptions that was the agenda of all societies and beleif systems who, unsure of their own abilities to prevail in light of other thought, felt threatened by and fought to supress / obliterate different points of view. It's called survival, it is in fact the "original instinct". It has pervaded our existance since the very earliest cells divided as only a propensity to insure the future of their population.

Although their still exists extremeists in every society, including "Christian", the prevailing attitude is grows more to the side of exceptance and inclusion at a faster rate than ever before. God's unconditional love is all there is, even for those who don't accept it (hence, "unconditional").

__________________
Only Love Prevails,
Don

First of all thanks you it’s the Greenman my personal deity. Thank you I like it too.
Now back to your post. Survival? I guess you can call it that but the problem is if your God is a God of love what does that say about the people who follow him? I’ve read the bible & let’s face it its not very pretty.
You talk about your God's unconditional love but if he allows his people to kill & convert others at gunpoint (so to speak) then they are not coming to him out of love but fear. I don’t see how that’s unconditional love.

__________________
I worship the old Gods because my heart tells me too not because I am told too.

And what ordeal is it, exactly, that you are certain that Christainisty has not endured in its 2000 year history?? Having studied religion (in particular Zoroastrianism, the ancient mystery relgions,and Christianity up until 1200), extensively, I have to say that I would like to know....


"Be seeing you..."

__________________
Grassaf, Eolas

I confess that I know very little of Zoroastrianism but from what I do understand about it some believe that it is the oldest religion in the world, & that it just might have been a huge influence
On Christianity.

As far as your question goes There is a lot in my point of view that Christianity has not gone though.
Have they ever been to the point where their entire religion was almost wiped out, Completely by another religion? Have they ever been forced to believe another religion by force? I’m sure the Jews, American Indians & Ancient Pagan tribes might be able to help you out with some stories.

__________________
I worship the old Gods because my heart tells me too not because I am told too.

Well, overlooking that whole era of persecution under the Romans-- geeze that only lasted for about 300 years -- I guess we might mention the forced conmversion to Islam of the millions of people who lived in the former Byzantine Empire in the years following the conquest my the Arabs in the 7th and 8th centuries.

Then there are the Vikings -- doughty Pagans all -- who trageted Christain communities and Christain leadership, in particular, in a series of campaigns that lasted for more than 200 years. Their depradations were instrumental in diverting insular and northern Christian communities away from Celtic Christianity and into the orbit of Rome, probably with historical effects second only to the decision of Theodosius.

One might consider the Barbary corsairs, who only enslaved Christains -- it surprises me that, as an American, you've never heard about them since one of your country's first wars was against them.

Or, more recently, we might mention the efforts by the Soviet Union to exterminate religon, or the similar efforts by China, both of which resulted in the murder of millions of Christains. If you ever meet someone from Poland, for example, or Ukraine, just try telling them that the Roman Catholic Church has never been oppressed or that Christians have not suffered coversion by force.

"Be seeing you..."

__________________
Grassaf, Eolas

Then there are the Vikings -- doughty Pagans all -- who trageted Christain communities and Christain leadership, in particular, in a series of campaigns that lasted for more than 200 years. Their depradations were instrumental in diverting insular and northern Christian communities away from Celtic Christianity and into the orbit of Rome, probably with historical effects second only to the decision of Theodosius.

I’m sure at some point that the Pagans fought back & more then likely did attack the Christians who had been attacking them first. I’m sure you might do the same if they had attacked your people first.





Or, more recently, we might mention the efforts by the Soviet Union to exterminate religon, or the similar efforts by China, both of which resulted in the murder of millions of Christains. If you ever meet someone from Poland, for example, or Ukraine, just try telling them that the Roman Catholic Church has never been oppressed or that Christians have not suffered coversion by force.


There are people out there who do not believe that Catholics are even Christians I’m not sure why myself.
The problem with these examples is that none of them still show Christians being almost completely wiped out by another religion .

__________________
I worship the old Gods because my heart tells me too not because I am told too.