I have noticed that people are down on Christianity, because they say that Christian's believe ignorantly, without having any proof for their beliefs, and that Christian's believe blindly.

So why some of this stuff may be true, I am also wondering about Scientist. How do we know that scientist are telling us all the truth. I mean if people who aren't smart enough to know how to do the math that scientist do to say they have proof of certain things, then how are those people suposed to know they are being told the truth by the scientist?

So uneducated people are the ones who suposedly blindly follow religion, then what is science suposed to be for those who are not as smart who blindly follow along with what their Idol (maybe not the right word I was looking for) scientist tell them.

How do people go about finding out the truths they need to find out about? And if they aren't all that smart, if they are kinda simple minded, then how do they stop themselves from being inspired by people who tell them what to believe?

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When a man sleeps in his bed, his soul leaves him to soar above, each soul according to its own way.......
The Zohar

Hey SL,

It's a really good question. EH raised an equally problematic issue for atheists when he suggested that people don't choose their beliefs but are just pre-disposed to have them. In both of these issues, we have the question raised on how is it possible to be rational creatures.

My answer to your dilemma that you raised is that we ought to be honest to the knowledge that is available to us no matter how smart or less smart we are. For example, it doesn't take a Darwin for someone to walk through a natural history museum and see fossil replicas of our human ancestors. This should cause us to believe that we evolved from these creatures. If we are suckered into an argument from creationists, this is contrary to the natural evidence and therefore we are showing that we are capable of higher reasoning. If, however, we are capable of higher reasoning, then we should be able to follow more sophisticated arguments by science.

Once we demonstrate to ourselves that science is very concerned about truth, and they carefully scrutinize evidence for truth, then it should be more acceptable to believe scientists when, at least, the majority is speaking. Of course, they can still be wrong, but we've come to trust the methods and practices that they use to come to their knowledge, and this means that it is for the most part a safe bet to believe the findings of science.


Christians ought not to be these kind of people. This is not the history of Christianity to form opinions ignorantly. The earliest evangelists leading all the way back to Jesus himself were in opposition to the wisdom of the world at the time because they could demonstrate that worldly opinions were false. For example, the apostle Paul travelled throughout Asia Minor and Greece and argued with philosophers about their belief in many gods. Today most of us realize that it is hard enough to explain one God existing, much less a large number. Yet, I think most people would be willing to accept that Paul was right for discrediting their beliefs in polytheism.

Charla, it's a good question because to be brutally honest, there are scientists who are not ethical, who falsify data, and outright lie. Most responsible scientists really hate them because every time one of those is caught, it discredits scientists and people are no longer sure who they can trust. It's no different from how upset Christians get when a preacher gets caught doing something he has been preaching nobody should do. Such people discredit the honest.

Nature is one of the most respected publications in science. They have an excellent peer review process. They publish generally only the very best research. Yet, Nature has been fooled. This man got 5 faked papers published in Nature:
Jan Hendrik Schön - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are a lot of people who believe everything in the Bible because it's in the Bible. There are a lot of people who believe everything in a textbook because it's in a textbook, and what's more, there are even some people who believe everything they read on the internet. The best we can really do when faced with topics we aren't smart enough to understand is to try to find someone trustworthy and competent in that area to tell us. There's the problem. It can be awfully hard to know, can't it? I try to compare a variety of sources. It helps a little.

The other day someone here made a post that just felt wrong to me. It just sounded very unlikely, but it was supposedly fact and the person posting it probably just saw it and assumed it was true. It bugged me so I looked it up and it turned out to be incorrect. That has nothing to do with being smart. Sometimes all the subtle things combine to give you that funny feeling that a thing might not be true. It might be the way it is written, or it might feel biased to you somehow. If that happens, it's worth seeing if several other sources agree. If they don't, and they agree with each other, and this is a scientific area, then you might want to be cautious before deciding. If it means enough to you, you might even need to learn some things in order to decide.

....What they say does not matter...what life has shown the individual is what I think matters...we can not know each others truths ...merely I think respect each others path,individualness....breath when we see things written or spoken that ruffle our feathers or make us sad..or intimidate....we need not personalize everything...we are all so bad at doing that....when in doubt...just breath...yep...just breath....let it go...it...reading, writing, fighting, understanding, knowledge, lack of knowledge, just breath...trust your built in survival guide...you get where your going...no wrong ...just unsure paths lead to bumpy roads....clearer choices...high way driving is easier...when i was younger....i had the energy for the rough road...i dont anymore..so i make choices of easier driving ....but still not always.....I dont know if any of this will make sense...but thought i would share my thoughts...knowing that is what they are....hope your day is a great one...ps...how do you do it..you are doing it...asking, sharing, hearing,....I hate when it is a day later the hearing hits...in other words what is read sinks in later...light comes on ...

Good questions, Shylady, so let me dive into them.

Scientists in general are very critical of other scientists. If you get a copy of Scientific American, for example, and read the letters to the editor, you'll see scientists just going after any mistake or offering a differing opinion made by another.

There's only one solution-- study. If one doesn't make an attempt to at least understand some of the basics in a given area, then they're just going to be prone to being duped by someone. This, of course, can happen in any area-- including religion.

One can get information on-line easily nowadays, but you have to be careful there as well since there's going to be people with an "agenda". Let me recommend that you start out with Wikipedia and then move on from there. It's by no means a perfect website, but it's good enough to get you started.

Then if it's specifically in the area of science, let me recommend the National Academy of Science website. This group is made up of many scientists that are the main scientific advisory group for Congress and most Presidents. Their website is excellent, although reading there can be sometimes difficult for those who do not have a scientific background. Or you may consider subscribing to Scientific American or Discovery magazines-- both are written by scientists but are usually simplified somewhat so lay the general public can understand. You may also get into their websites.

Hope this helps a bit.

Shalom,
Vern

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"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-- Einstein

Vern (metis) I like your saying by the Budda.

I do go to a lot of Science sites these days, so I never have to get the magazines anymore, cause the sites satisfy whatever interest I have in science enough.

I used to like to read a biblical arcaeology magazine in which I read the letters by the readers. Some readers thought that the magazine was not a good source for the facts of things but I thought the magazine was the best thing in the world. Because without them I wouldn't have had any other knowledge about any of the interests that that magazine provided for me. So I did believe everything they said. The some of the letters are what made me began to realize that it wasn't a good idea to just take the word of one person or group or magazine. I knew that I was limited on how I could find out the truth, but I decided that I'd do my best to find out whatever I could about the truth of things I was interested in, before I believed anything, as well as to use my own common sence about it. Although, my common sence ain't always been there for me, I feel it perking up more these days. I've always been a very slow learner in the past, but I seem to be getting better at it as I get older.

__________________
When a man sleeps in his bed, his soul leaves him to soar above, each soul according to its own way.......
The Zohar

Shylady, each of us are still a work in progress, so don't feel alone here. And each of us have strengths and weaknesses, so don't feel that you have to be an expert with everything. Matter of fact, my favorite saying comes from Confucius, and I'll paraphrase it:

the more you know, the more you know you don't know.

Shalom and thanks for your kind words,
Vern

__________________
"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-- Einstein

That's wonderful. Have you considered taking some college classes? Most colleges have scholarships for women returning to school after raising their kids. Also, check this out. MIT has a huge amount of coursework free online for self study. You could get a pretty good education for free right there:
Free Online Course Materials | MIT OpenCourseWare

Excellent questions, Charla!!! I question everything. If I see a scientific theory, I think it is interesting. If I hear a good church sermon, I think that's interesting. In other words I stay open to all sides. I don't really believe in much as absolute fact. I like the way you are educating yourself and you are asking good questions. That is a good path to be on.

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I agree with Metis: the more you know, the more you know you don't know.

It's not that important to have a lot of knowledge, but to be o.k. even with the knowledge you don't have.

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May your awareness be perfection