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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2008, 04:26 PM
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Animal Spirituality

We have done an interview on animal spirituality. Do you think animals have a spirituality? Do they have spiritual practices? Can humans connect with them on a spiritual level?
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Old 11th March 2008, 05:52 PM
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I think it's a stretch, but not a long one. We certainly know now that every mammal experiences emotions. A good place to begin might be to look at the book by Marc Bekoff, The Emotional Lives of Animals: A Leading Scientist Explores Animal Joy, Sorrow, and Empathy—and Why They Matter (New World Library, California, 2007). Bekoff is a professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado in Boulder.

The following is from an article by Professor Bekoff:
Quote:
One of the hottest questions in the study of animal behavior is, “Do animals have emotions?” The simple answer is, “Of course they do.” Just look at them, listen to them, and, if you dare, smell the odors they emit when they interact with friends and foes. Look at their faces, tails, bodies and, most importantly, their eyes. What we see on the outside tells us a lot about what’s happening inside animals’ heads and hearts.

As a scientist who’s studied animal emotions for more than 30 years, I consider myself very fortunate. Whenever I observe or work with animals, I get to contribute to science and develop social relationships at the same time, and to me, there’s no conflict between the two. While stories about animal emotions abound, there are many lines of scientific support (what I call “science sense”) about the nature of animal emotions that are rapidly accumulating from behavioral and neurobiological studies (from the emerging field called social neuroscience). Common sense and intuition also feed into and support science sense and the obvious conclusion is that mammals, at the very least, experience rich and deep emotional lives, feeling passions from pure and contagious joy during play, to deep grief and pain. Recent data also shows that birds and fish are sentient and experience pain and suffering. Prestigious scientific journals regularly publish essays on joy in rats, grief in elephants and empathy in mice.
Now, whether or not that equates to "sprituality" could be a very different question, and would depend an awful lot on what you meant by spiritual. We've tried to have that conversation before, and I note that many believers don't even think that human atheists can be spiritual.

So, why don't we start there again, and define just what we mean by "spirituality."
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Old 12th March 2008, 12:50 PM
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Well, there's a challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist
So, why don't we start there again, and define just what we mean by "spirituality."


To me, "spiritual", "spirituality" has to do with the expression or investigation of matters having to do with the ultimate nature of reality, and ourselves within reality. What is "spiritual" moves beyond the merely material, temporal, or worldly concerns, and seeks to understand and integrate understanding in every aspect of our lives.

Spirituality is private and individual, a task of ordering or categorizing human experience, so that perceptions and occurances make sense.

There's a first stab at defining what I mean by the term. Others may well disagree.
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Old 12th March 2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor
To me, "spiritual", "spirituality" has to do with the expression or investigation of matters having to do with the ultimate nature of reality, and ourselves within reality. What is "spiritual" moves beyond the merely material, temporal, or worldly concerns, and seeks to understand and integrate understanding in every aspect of our lives.

Spirituality is private and individual, a task of ordering or categorizing human experience, so that perceptions and occurances make sense.

There's a first stab at defining what I mean by the term. Others may well disagree.
Then on that definition (which is not a bad one, by the way -- better than I would have done), I doubt that animals have spirituality. Emotions are one thing, and serve very definite purposes, leading to seeking food and shelter, avoiding danger, reproduction, and so on. Even play can serve a strong learning purpose for young animals. But I don't think that there's evidence of any animal considering the ultimate nature of reality and it's place within it. At least, there's no evidence that I can find.
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Old 12th March 2008, 01:01 PM
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Judaism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
We have done an interview on animal spirituality. Do you think animals have a spirituality? Do they have spiritual practices? Can humans connect with them on a spiritual level?

What's "spirituality"? I'm not trying to be funny. Can someone define it? Do we know with any certainty it exists? How can we tell?

It seems to me that we have to define our terminology before we can answer the question-- if it's answerable at all.
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Old 12th March 2008, 01:45 PM
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Not so sure, myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist
But I don't think that there's evidence of any animal considering the ultimate nature of reality and it's place within it. At least, there's no evidence that I can find.


I think the problem is that we cannot communicate with animals. However, close observation of elephants and chimps, at least, show that they seem capable of greiving and seem to have a concept of identity that extends beyond death. (For example, they have been seen to stop and carefully examine the bones of former herd-mates, and to pass the bones from one to another, before carefully placing them back where they came from.)

Here's a brief example:

Quote:
However, research and observation has proven that elephants are indeed capable of many complex functions of thought and feeling. There have been many observations of elephants grieving. In Joyce Poole's Coming of Age with Elephants, a situation is described where a mother elephant is seen grieving over her stillborn baby for a few days. This mother physical stature was observed as slumped, appeared to be crying, while trying to revive her baby. This mother elephant was seen to be in denial which is a common reaction with humans confronting death. Finally, after some time had elapsed, the mother finally succumbed to the reality that she no longer had a live baby. She had to move on.

In another anecdote, Poole goes on to illustrate the depth of elephant grieving. A clan of elephants was moving towards newer territory, when suddenly one of the elephants fell over in. Soon enough the other elephants noticed that one of their group was in trouble. Arriving by the elephants side, they realized she was not moving. They attempted to get her up on her feet but to no avail (see a similar account in Africa´s Elephant Kingdom). As a last resort, the male elephants attempted to mount her in order to arouse her to consciousness. This was not to be. The elephant then left the dead body and moved on. The next day, elephants returned to mourn and pay homage to the lost friend, family member, clan member and elephant. These two stories and many more create a good picture of the elephant´s emotional depth. The plain truth is that elephants have a deep need to remember and mourn lost ones. This can even be observed many years since the death of a loved one. Without prior knowledge of an in-depth longitudinal study our observations would be meaningless. But, as observed by Joyce Poole, when an elephant walks past a place that a loved one died he/she will stop dead still; a silent and empty pause that can last several minutes. An elephant pause. I wonder if, like us, they relive experiences shared with the loved when they visit their place of death or resting spot. This is not that implausible given their need to investigate and touch the bones of a dead fellow elephant.
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Old 12th March 2008, 02:04 PM
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Thank you for that, EP. It does merit some more thought. As Emily says, near the end of Our Town: "Oh, earth, you’re too wonderful for anybody to realize you."
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Old 16th March 2008, 02:08 PM
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No, I don't think animals have a soul, in order where they can think spiritually. Animals don't need all of the spirituality stuff that we need.

Oh, and what do I think Spirituality is; well I think spirituality is things having to do with, being religious, needing God, needing the ritual and symbalism of your faith based way to worship God in your own way--or whatever other ways you might have.

Animals don't need things like rituals, like a tribal person might need to use ritual before he goes out on a hunt or something like that.

However, as far as making animals examples, I think humans have always done that. Not everyone of course. It seems to me though that the people who use animals as their symbals for rituals in spirituality develope strong qualities of the animal they rever.
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Last edited by ShyLady : 16th March 2008 at 02:18 PM.
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