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View Poll Results: Are you for or against the death penalty?
For 1 9.09%
Against 10 90.91%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 2nd May 2008, 08:11 PM
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Capital punishment should not be used. It is simply wrong to murder someone, being allowed by a government does not change the moral implications
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Old 2nd May 2008, 08:18 PM
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Judaism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna
However, if one is in particular Buddhist sects, one might say, it was their karma to be executed or all life is sacred.

Buddhists would be violating dharma by adhering to such a proposition unless we're talking about a society that has no prisons/jails whereas the society could not defend itself without capital punishment. One simply cannot kill/murder someone else and somehow excuse it away as it being karma.




Quote:
If anyone here has been a victim of violent crime or has a loved one who was, I think many of those people would definitely be for execution.

You're talking about emotional responses and, yes, that can be very tough. But if we cave in to these responses, then we can justify all sorts of violent acts against others. Killing the murderer does not bring the victim back to life and, as a matter of fact, executing the prisoner may well be doing him/her a favor.




Quote:
There is no doubt that there are innocents on death row and the system is far from perfect, however, let's please be sensitive to the victims who cannot speak for themselves and their families.

Sensitive, yes, but killing someone who kills someone to show that killing someone is wrong makes little sense to me in a society that can protect itself in other ways.
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Old 2nd May 2008, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortuna
If anyone here has been a victim of violent crime or has a loved one who was, I think many of those people would definitely be for execution.

Some are, but some are not. Leslie Parrot of Toronto, whose 10-year old daughter was kidnapped, raped and murdered, resisted the attempt of advocates of the death penalty to use this case in support, saying that she was in principle opposed to the death penalty and did not want her family's personal tragedy to be used in ways that were contrary to her principles.

A Nova Scotia woman (whose name escapes me at the moment) found peace after the unsolved murder of her daughter by talking to those who had perpetrated similar movements and becoming an advocate of Victim-Offender Reconciliation Processes.

A Korean couple whose son was murdered by young thugs in Philadelphia, upon learning of the deprived social background of his killers, sent a letter to the court asking that they not be executed, and provided funding so that they and others like them would have better opportunities in life.

If one looks, it is not difficult to find many similar real-life stories.

So even in cases where brutal crimes affect one personally one can not assume a reaction in favour of the death penalty.

Quote:
Let's get real on this issue instead of hypothetical. Fortuna

In fact, it is the reality that leads me to oppose capital punishment.
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Old 3rd May 2008, 01:32 AM
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Thanks for sharing these inspiring examples with us Gluadys : )
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Old 5th May 2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist
I heartily agree with you, and while sometimes the idea of revenge seems like a good idea, I note (from personal experience) that it leaves a very bitter after-taste.

I would heartily disagree with both you and Eolas. The death penalty is not solely about revenge, but about maintaining justice and dealing with criminals. I would not advocate the death penalty due to any level of uncertainty, which of course throws out the concept of death penalty in many cases. However, someone who has shown a complete unwillingness to conform to social conduct and respect the principles and rights of our society are dangerous to the fabric of society.

We deal with cancer in the same way. Even though we should take as many steps as possible to prevent cancer, if it occurs we must deal with it decisively.

A career criminal, like a thief, or a fraudster, or a rapist, invader, abuser, etc, are incapable or unwilling to live in harmony and peace with the trader principle of volitional mutual benefit.

The death penalty is not a method of crime deterrent. Punishment is not a crime deterrent, it is a consequence for ones choice to act in a way that is not socially coherent. If we accept the concept that the death penalty is revenge, we could accept the concept that jail-time is for revenge because it is a punitive action as well.

Economical background is not an excuse or a reason for criminal activity. People who live in affluent areas commit crimes just like people who live in ghettos.

The concept of forgiveness is between the victim and the perpetrator of the crime, not between the government and the perpetrator. The governments sole responsibility is to ensure the protection of the rights and principles of action, not to arbitrarily dole out mercy punishment on the basis of an individuals emotional pleading.

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I find that to be nonsense, because once you've got someone locked up, once they are in no position to defend themselves against the executioner, they are by definition no longer a threat. And so we return to the execution as an act of revenge.

Not necessarily. A corrections facility should be for the rehabilitation and treatment of people who have committed crimes. Community service, psychological examination and rehabilitation and isolation. Capital punishment is the highest level of punitive action reserved for those who do not help themselves in the rehabilitation process and recommit crimes. They are beyond help.

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As a Canadian, I can hardly miss noting David Milgaard, Donald Marshall and Guy Paul Morin, all convicted of murder, all later proved to be innocent of the crime they were convicted of. (Marshall was guilty of others, though.) And there have been many others, the list is really quite long.

The very possibility that society can and does make such mistakes means that society has certainly been guilty of judicial murder of innocent persons. I'd prefer we didn't add to that sorry list.

One mistake in the justice process is just as heinous as the other. Locking up someone for 25 years against their will, punishing them for a crime they did not commit and forcing them to atone for an action that isn't theirs is just as heinous as killing them. In both cases you are revoking their right to life.
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Old 5th May 2008, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metis
Sensitive, yes, but killing someone who kills someone to show that killing someone is wrong makes little sense to me in a society that can protect itself in other ways.

Uh, no, it is killing someone because they initiated an act of force against another individual. The death penalty is not a show, it's a punishment.
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Old 5th May 2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asimov
Uh, no, it is killing someone because they initiated an act of force against another individual. The death penalty is not a show, it's a punishment.

In so far as the death penalty is often defended as a deterrent, the implication is that it is a show as well as a punishment.
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Old 5th May 2008, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gluadys
In so far as the death penalty is often defended as a deterrent, the implication is that it is a show as well as a punishment.

I guess you could say that. The statistics don't agree, as far as I'm aware, that the death penalty is effective as a deterrent. That's why I say that using the death penalty as a show is redundant.
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Old 6th May 2008, 01:41 AM
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Judaism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asimov
Uh, no, it is killing someone because they initiated an act of force against another individual. The death penalty is not a show, it's a punishment.

Because of the danger of accidentally executing the wrong individual, which has been substantiated by the fact that d.n.a. tests have confirmed that there are/were those on death row who did not commit the crime they were found guilty on, I simply cannot justify capital punishment. And I never said that the death penalty was a "show", btw.
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Old 6th May 2008, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metis
Because of the danger of accidentally executing the wrong individual, which has been substantiated by the fact that d.n.a. tests have confirmed that there are/were those on death row who did not commit the crime they were found guilty on, I simply cannot justify capital punishment.

Yes, and I already addressed that.

Coupled with the fact that executing the wrong person doesn't indicate that executing a guilty person is wrong.
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