The problem is the "world" thinks its all just happening out there


What is not realised is that "our thoughts" are the cause of the effect we see


See a victim and thats what you create - more victims


If I am wrong then all you have done is offered Love via a different thought system - You still offer Love and compassion
If I am right then "You will see Heaven on Earth" along with the "victim"
One enslaves us to the dream and one frees us

What is there to lose unless what you are really doing is to worship the "victim" idea - The false idol ?



I see a supposed victim dreaming in fear and offer Love from a different place in thought - Love and comfort is what we should offer SO why do we have to need a victim >?

What is wrong with seeing perfection in a bad dream and offering Love from there ?

Is that unloving when the response is exactly the same ?

Why is the victim idea so important ?

Tony, you say:

"The problem is the "world" thinks its all just happening out there" and who is creating this problem? Who's belief is it that is manifesting, since it is in your consciousness? If we are all one....but some are saying they are suffering, is not everything we see a part of us?

I totally agree with what you are saying....but there is a contridiction in our beliefs. You are right when you say, as long as we see victims we are creating them....but don't be blinded by words.....if we see any differences between ourselves and others...we too are still part of that dream.

__________________
May your awareness be perfection

If you were to make a film...would you think it of much interest to be all wishy washy and da do da do.....this perhaps is extreme thinking (or not)...if they were looking for actors of said film...can you imagine the part you might pick should you know with out a doubt there would be no harm come to you...that it would be only a part in a film...might your options of choice of what part you pick be wide....or even many parts....then think of films...there made for learning...entertainment...variety of reasons...how lost in a movie can we get...how often do our emotions get tugged at when viewing...we can be angry enough to throw things or cry our eyes out..then come to our reality and remember it is but a movie...and do i liken the reality of a mother burying her child to this...yes and no...the pain i share would be no less...but the coming through it the peace i find comes from the trust in this is not all there is...even if i dont have words to express what i think it is or how it works..it is experienced.....again from reading the posts here on the forum...i read some things that sound...well...make me say...HUH....and then i relax and remember the language barrier we all have...for our spot...it is sense to someone..and i may or may not ever make sense of it..or ever need to ....to further my growth...is the movie scenario a good one or not..or the book that has been written a good one or not...i dont know for me it works..because there as much as most hate to hear the words...there are no words.....i remind myself of youth when one hated to always hear the words..your to young to understand...and one day you will.....for those words are truth..and it is experience ...and what appears to be such differences between people is not such at all ...imo...it is but sharing where we are at any given moment...if your reading or study ...or being is not out of a book i have read or heard of ...it could appear loco...or intriguing....i still end with it is all good.....

Think about what you are saying. "There is only one entity in the universe." By definition, then, that must be God. You, of course and everybody else would be That God (not "part of," if we are all One).

What you are proposing, then, is that God had some kind of nervous breakdown, leading to the absolute Ultimate in multiple personalities, and can't seem to find a way to put himself back together. Even you, who think you have the answer, can't do it, or you wouldn't need to be seeking answers in ACIM or typing on the internet.

If the philosophy you espouse here is something that you learned in ACIM, then I will go further and say that it is a dangerous book and ought to be burned (the first one I've ever said that about!).
And yet every time I make an effort to show those contradictions, I'm completely ignored. For example, I gave a very good example of the contradictions in this post, and nobody responded.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

This is the same basic idea which many kabbalists propose that God has fragmented into a myriad of pieces/sparks which we must then reassemble.

**************

the idea that there is only one entity in the universe does not seem incompatible with the idea that it is made of many pieces.
The further idea that we are a part of a binary star system which has (from our point of view) a long cycle between "day" and "night" may explain why we are all so out of touch with our "greater self" and do not "know God" as we feel we should. It was said in the Tenach that there will come a day when there will be no need for a teacher as even the smallest child will then "know God".
Looking at the clock in the sky, the mazzaroth (zodiac constellations) we can see that we have gone through the dark night and are at the cusp of the dawn. But since relative to our lives this process is lengthy, we will not live to see it in these bodies, but will see it when we are reincarnated.

***************


As for victims, you are if you think you are.
If you think you are not, then you are not.
Why is that so hard to figure out.

Fine, great. Still, it seems a bit of an impractical thing for god to do, and it always begs the question that nobody wants to touch with a trillion-foot pole: "Is there any reason to suppose it...?"

And that's critical, isn't it? This ensures that you can state it as fact with nobody able to refute it.

I state it as fact, using identical logic, that the human race will collectively swallow cyanide on July 12, 2206, and the universe will promptly explode as God has a conniption. Prove me wrong.

And if you think you are a cumquat? Are you? If you think you're Napoleon, are you? Or are you just insane?

I think of people I have know who have been victimized in horrible ways and I find you attitude, as it is expressed above, repugnant in the extreme. I find it heartless and cruel, and I can't think how anybody could get there. I am, frankly, stupified.

But you are just redefining "victim," aren't you. It's like saying, "if you think you're happy, you are." But it is not the same thing. Find me, in a reputable dictionary, a definition of "victim" that would allow your callous remark. Here it is from mine (Houghton Mifflin Canadian Dictionary):
You will, I hope, see that there is not mention about what anybody thinks of it.

Good freaking Lord, man. If there's no victim, there's no crime. So let's just say, for the hell of it, that a good Christian rape victim forgives her rapist, and claims "I don't believe I'm a victim, so there's no crime, and no reason to punish him." How many courts do you want to let that man out on the streets, to do it again? Possibly, this time, to somebody who might think of themselves as a victim?

Look at the children in Rwanda who lost limbs to machete attacks, walk up to one and tell them that they were not a victim. Look at the children in your own nation who have been raped, possible murdered, by their own family, by friends, or by strangers, and tell them (those who are still living, that is) to their face that they were not victimized. Tell them if they only thought about properly -- as you appear to advise -- that it should really have been quite nice for them.

I do not understand the heartlessness you seem to express, but I sincerely hope never to meet you, or anyone like you, in person.

Is that what religion does to people? Is that why it was so easy for Christians to watch others burning alive? Is that why Muslims can watch other Muslims, even children, being stoned to death, or shot in the head as half-time entertainment in Kabul?

Then keep it!

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

yikey shniky...how can we all read and get such vast differences from someone....EH...you ask for words to describe what we say is indescribable...then because it resonates with you in a totally different way..it really burns your hiney...and i can only say i read things and depersonalize from it..and i can almost hear you ask how the heck can you depersonalize from such horrid acts we as man kind deal with...perhaps it relates to nicks living in his cave not sure...for me i would think to meet tony would be a great meeting ...and i think one would find that this person lives as we all do..and is just trying to share best they can to show a touch of there life and thinking..and hope it may of be some help or light..or just for there self...either way...there is but one or two people who post here that i would think not knowing would matter...i am curious do you think because one puts things in words that dont relate to your thinking that they are not functioning as loving caring citizens...do you feel that some that post would stand by when someone was in harms way and just non shalauntly go hmm..not my problem all in love..it almost seems you are looking for the negative to move forward instead of giving the positive of what might be trying to be shared..i sure as heck dont know..just my thoughts after reading your above post

The controdiction I see is in duality. If I say there are victims...some will say there are not. If I say there are no victims....some will say there are. Being a victim and not being a victim are two sides of the same coin.....being something.

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May your awareness be perfection

Vivamis

I see exactly what you are saying

So my Statement as follows would make perfect sense


"We are all ONE and there is only LOVE"


Any other thought is utterly IRRELEVANT

EH

We are the sons of God, each a complete part of the whole which is the SON

We are created in Gods image

The only difference is this


God created us





Now as to ACIM


I expereinced "GOD" IN 2003


A year later I was given ACIM in which it defines my expereince exactly - not in one section but all through
An experience that I could not put into words

Prior to this I read "BIKE"

How would a person with zero spiritual or Religious training or knowledge know what is written in this book
How could I read such a book in 3 evenings ?

If you wont take my word you can speak to any member of my familly - test me - well hell crucify me if you must

I wont change the message and when you expereince the same neither will you


What I would ask is this

Why do you find it so bad that this could all be a dream ?
Imagine if it were and noone has ever died or been a victim or an attacker ?

Why the anger
Why would you burn a book that asks only that we forgive ?

Will look at the other question now