I was just thinking of the old song, "Look What They've Done To My Song Ma" which I used to sing along to as a lad - some time ago now, alas...... Anyway, there is a line in it that goes......

"If I could find a real good book and never have to come out, I would". This would seem to be a great temptation, very much like my own preferred option -when things get tough - of retiring to my bedroom and pulling the blanket up over my head......

There often seems in posts on many forums a deep reliance upon "texts" and "scripture". (Those who follow Judaism, Christianity or Islam are often called "The People of the Book". )

The signature I use is:"When the bird and the book disagree, always believe the bird"

"Always"?

How do others here think they have gained by "believing in" a book? How do others here think they have gained by "thinking for themselves"?

Perhaps the question is:- What is the balance between "bird" and "book"?

Thanks
Derek

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When the bird and the book disagree, always believe the bird.

I would just like to add that I am not equating "thinking for oneself" with the meaning of "bird" in my chosen Signature.( Perhaps the exact meaning of the "bird" - and of how "it" functions - is the key to my questions!) Anyway, just to help things along here are a few texts and quotes related to this question, drawn from various sources......

".....meaning is the product of an interaction or dialogue between reader and text, rather than a monological essence waiting to be found in a neutral, fixed manuscript" (Sorry, I am unable to locate the source of these words, I have drawn them from a post I made on another Forum)

"Do not be satisfied with hearsay or with tradition or with legendary lore or with what has come down in scriptures or with conjecture or with logical inference or with weighing evidence of with liking for a view after pondering over it or with someone else's ability or with the thought 'The monk is our teacher.' When you know in yourselves: 'These things are wholesome, blameless, commended by the wise, and being adopted and put into effect they lead to welfare and happiness,' then you should practice and abide in them" (The Buddha, Kalama Sutta, from the Anguttara Nikaya of the Pali Canon of Theravada Buddhism)

And a little testimony given by the Japanese writer Hiroyuki Itsuki in his book "Tariki - Embracing Despair, Discovering Peace":- "Everyone but myself is a mentor" He could well have said "everything"......

...which leads to another few words, written by the Zen Master Dogen, drawn from the Genjokoan:- "When we wish to teach and enlighten all things by ourselves, we are deluded; when all things teach and enlighten us, we are enlightened"

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When the bird and the book disagree, always believe the bird.

And perhaps the balance always changes. For example, I repair recreational vehicles RVs) for a living. I also maintain a personal website where I present a lot of information relating to RVs. But all of my advice contains the statement, "If my advice conflicts with something your owner's manual says, go with your owner's manual."

At the same time, when my first grandson was born I gave my daughter a copy of Dr. Spock's famous book. On the inside cover, I wrote, "When in doubt, put down the book and pick up the kid."

Finally, given the delay in publishing books, there are many times when the information in the book is out-of-date by the time it's published.

Perhaps the balance lies in what Mohammed is reputed to have said: "Trust in God, but tie up your camel."

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Self-reverence, self-knowledge, self-control;
these three alone lead one to sovereign power.
Tennyson

I enjoy reading books and scripture, but I have to say my best learned lessons are the moments where I have figured out something on my own. I believe that spirit and matter work hand in hand. What you are going through inwardly draws what you need to you.

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InterfaithForums.com-Where your ideas and beliefs count.

Thanks! That seems to capture the heart of it!

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When the bird and the book disagree, always believe the bird.