I was raised a Lutheran..went to a Lutheran school until I was 10. Always thought I wanted to be a nun until I realized you had to be Catholic. I became a Sunday school teacher when I was 15. Got confirmed in the Lutheran church when I was 16. Left the Lutheran church when I was 17. Became a Bahai at 17. Started really investigating on my own and withdrew from the Bahai Faith when I was about 45. I sartted out around the time I was 44 reading Shirley McClaine believe it or not. I then started reading Sylvia Browne. I love Eric Butterfields books. Echhart Tolles, a New Earth is good!! Science of the Mind is great also! Started going to a spiritual group based on Metaphysics and Unity when I was 50. Started studying to become ordained about that time. Became ordained Interfaith in September of 2005. This was after much reading and investigating of most religions. I lean mostly toward metaphysics, unity, shamanism, Science of the Mind and a good combination of the rest. I love the law of attraction and universal consciuosness.

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RevKathyV

http://www.myspace.com/divinelightinterfaith



www.divinelightinterfaithministry.com

Us Jews are all over the board on the issue of the Bible and the questions of divine inspiration and inerrancy. I never during my life of 63 years ever considered the Bible to be inerrant, and I always questioned the degree of divine inspiration that may or may not be found in the Bible. As a scientist, it's simply just a large part of my orientation to question, and since my conversion, I have further gravitated towards being non-theistic, which is not the same as being atheistic.

The irony is that I see Jesus in a much different light than I even felt as a Christian, and it's a light that I find very pleasing. I see him as a great teacher of love, compassion, and justice, but I personally do not believe in deifying him.

Fortunately in Judaism so much emphasis is placed on individual interpretation-- we have no creed, and halacha (Jewish Law) is not binding on belief. About a year ago I had my rabbi over for dinner and we discussed my non-theistic position and he welcomed it even though he is a theist, and this is not at all abnormal in Judaism. Remember, two Jews equals three opinions on everything.




I don't know where to start. Let me suggest you go to Judaism 101 or, if you want to see why the vast majority of Jews do not believe in the deification of Jesus, let me recommend the website Jews For Judaism. Anyhow, part of my response to the above question I covered in my response to your first question, and then I'll cover another part in response to your next question.





When we read Torah, we have to realize that the events covered are through the eyes and opinions of those who wrote the Bible. If we look at the Bible as being an objective view of history or as a science book, we're really barking up the wrong tree. It has long been recognized by our sages that one simply cannot take each verse as if it were literally word for word from God. Instead, we look for "the meaning behind the words" or, IOW, we are not scriptural literalists.

When one reads of the harsh treatment for certain crimes, keep not only the above in mind, but also that the punishments depicted are for a time period before my people had jails and prisons, even if these documents were written much later. Also, it has long been believed that if the literal translation of a verse defies reason, then we shouldn't interpret it as being literally true.

What was passed down through many generations from Sinai on is something called the "oral law" or, as some prefer to call it, the "oral tradition". IOW, there were teachings that were believed by most observant Jews to have been passed on by God that are not necessarily to be found in Torah. The "oral law" didn't actually get put into writing until a couple of hundred years after Jesus' time, and it's called the "Mishnah". A couple of hundred years later, the Mishnah was incorporated into a much lengthier document called the "Talmud".

The structure of the Talmud is very interesting. A section typically starts out with a quote from Torah and then begins to include the Mishnah, court ruling, commentaries, etc. Since the Talmud includes teachings from the Torah and the Prophets, it becomes the central focus of our faith even though different branches of Judaism do have different takes on how the Talmud is to be used.

So why don't we stone lawbreakers any longer? First of all, with prisons and jails being available, why do we have to? Wouldn't that be based on a faulty concept that people cannot change? So, because of the change in conditions, our sages simply backed off on this penalty without eliminating it in its entirety. Matter of fact, the Talmud states that if more than one person is executed every 7 years in all of eretz Israel, that is considered too brutal.

Anyhow, I have to end here for the moment, but please do not be shy about asking questions.

Shalom

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"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-- Einstein

Rather than seeing the stories as literal and outside of us, each story is an inner journey. This is probably something that can't be understood intellectually, but speaks to something deeper in us. Like a song or a poem or a painting doesn't speak to the mind, it speaks to something much deeper.

There are things we need to allow to work on us rather than trying to understand them with the mind. In other words we just enjoy a song and what it makes us feel like instead of trying to figure out what notes are being played, what the rythym is or why it was written. When reading the Bible experience the stories, don't try to intellectualize them. In this atmosphere whatever you need from that story will take place inwardly. You may not need anything from the story. You just allow.

I've been in an Eckhart Tolle study group for almost six months. I love the process of quieting the mind and allowing the Presence that is within us to enter that space.

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InterfaithForums.com-Where your ideas and beliefs count.

Seeing the stories within us can be explained perhaps in this way

Take the story of Jesus and instead of thinking about it as his travel in a body look upon it as his travel through thinking

Apply the stories of Jesus as stages in thought he underwent


I believe this was what the stories were for - guidance in the path of thought home

nice take ...

I'm confused! It seems like Judaism changes with time and Jews cherry pick what to believe in the O.T. This is very hard to understand. When I was a Christian I believed the Bible to be God's unchanging word. I believed that if I don't believe all of it then I don't believe in it. I treated everything in it as fact. When I realized It wasn't God's word I lost faith. It seems like Jews realize it isn't God's word because if they did believe it as God's word they would be stoning people until he tells them to do otherwise. It seems like they disagree with God and believe him to be unreasonable. I can't comprehend why if someone isn't a fundamentalist how they can truly be a believer. Is it that Jews aren't really believers anymore and now their religion is no longer a faith but a tradition? I just don't get it. If Judaism doesn't resemble the Judaism of the O.T. then how is it really Judaism?

What is the difference between non-theistic an atheistic?

Why do you now consider yourself non-theistic?

Have you ever been through a Deistic phase?

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"I fully comprehended the power of the human mind at the exact moment I came to the realization that I'm totally insane and have no idea what I'm talking about."

I think I get it. That sounds kind of like a Deistic way of interpreting it. I kind of do that. I no longer believe in the Bible but I still get inspiration from it. You could probably do that with any holy book or any book for that matter.

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"I fully comprehended the power of the human mind at the exact moment I came to the realization that I'm totally insane and have no idea what I'm talking about."

Different Jewish branches have different takes on this. The Orthodox believe that Torah (which includes the Pentateuch, the Tanakh, the "oral law", the Mishnah, and the Talmud) to be fully divinely inspired with the Torah and Tanakh being without error. However, they believe the "oral law" was also given at Sinai and was passed down through the generations, and this helped to clarify certain aspects of Torah. Also remember that Moses, according to Exodus, set up courts to decide certain matters, and the Talmud also relfects on court decisions through the ages. But one thing is very important to understand, and that is the oral law, Mishnah, and Talmud cannot counter Torah in any way.

So, where we see "an eye for an eye...", what does that exactly mean? Here, as in so many other situations, interpretations may vary, but so does ideas of application as well. What is a "graven image"? Again, it needed to be defined. What constitutes "work" that's prohibited on the Sabbath? Some is spelled out in Torah, but it's far from complete, thus leaving many questions that needed to be dealt with.

We also have to remember that conditions changed as well. Torah relfects a time period whereas my people wandered the desert whereas there was no prisons or jails and, therefore, penalties that we ordered would obviously reflect that condition. Even when we get into the Prophets and their Writings, we note a much greater emphasis on mercy and forgiveness. Why? Because, by their time, prisons and jails were available.

So, it's really not "picking and choosing" for a matter of convenience, but it reflects varying interpretations and changing conditions. And following halacha (Jewish Law) is hardly convenient btw.



A non-theist is a Buddhist term that means one does not have a belief in a creator-god but doesn't deny the possibility one or more could exist, and it is closer to an agnostic position that an atheist.


No, more of a pantheistic phase, which is still my default position in case there were to be a creator-god. And if there is, I would tend to think that this creator-god also evolves with creation.

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"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-- Einstein

Well, I was raised nominally Christian, but heavily influenced by my deist father. At the age of 10 or 11 (I'm not sure), I suffered abuse, which caused me to lose my faith completely. Then I had a very intense theophany, and non-belief was no longer an option, so I was a maltheist for a short time. I then discovered Wicca by way of ecofeminist Goddess worship, and that fit me comfortably for most of my adolescence. However, my theology continued to evolve, and I no longer feel that I can honestly call myself a neopagan, broad as that category is.

The nutshell version of my current beliefs is what has been described as a "living Godiverse" - that "God" is a sapient organism whose physical body is the cosmos.

I've also found community in UUism, and do my best to live by the 7 Principles.

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We do not fear the night, who have loved the stars so fondly.

raised as an aesthetic
investigated new age, yoga, budhism, gnostism, and drugs in my 20's
became agnostic about about age 24
became muslim at about 31/32
was born again 11/02/2008