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my opinion... :]
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my opinion... :] - 26th February 2008, 12:40 AM

Thanks for the welcome Vivamis!

My opinion is that in this day and age a woman has a right to make all of her own opinions and choices including when, where, and how she wants to have sex and with whom - gender included. I don't subscribe to anti-women Islamic beliefs or the beliefs of some scholar sitting behind a desk.

Traditions of many socities [ not just Islamic ] nowadays are being confused with hard evidence from the Qu'ran ; Torah ; Bible & ect. If you take anything strictly literally from any scripture you should go back and read between the lines. Everything has a chance for change and revision including sex laws and marriage laws - this is seen through all the different Prophets throughout the world who constantly promoted change and love and peace regardless of what was going on around them.

So why is that is seems a woman is still behind in this regard?! 1violin
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26th February 2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzjaiy
Okay the original question of this forum was dealing with Muslims being able to refuse their husband.. As a Muslim woman I have to respectively disagree with you Fahad1 sorry..

The opinions of the scholars on the matter of women denying sex is very controversial but I want to throw this out there..Although I do not deny traditions or opinions of the scholars in general they are but opinions of scholars. There is no Qu'ranic evidence to say that a woman doesn't have the right to refuse her husband from having sex with her. The Qu'ran was one of the first sources to give women rights far before women in other places had them.
Welcome to the forum and the good first post!!! I also would like to hear more from your perspective.


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26th February 2008, 12:51 AM

Lightkeeper,

Thanks for the welcome.

Peace
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26th February 2008, 02:00 AM

You go girl! I don't know the Qu'ran, but from what Fahad1 quote, I did not agree on his interpretation. Thank you for posting in this thread. Your post was personal and insightful.


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wives are not sex objects for their husbands
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Unicorn wives are not sex objects for their husbands - 30th September 2008, 04:21 PM

[223]¤Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe. ¤ [Q 2:223]

I think that this verse makes it pretty clear that a husband has the right to enter their tilths ( wives) whenever they want so yeah i think that a good muslimah has to consent to her husbands needs everytime he asks for it. If i didn't understand the verse clearly, you can correct me. :/




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahad1
Nice question, no it is a report from a hadith,not a verse of Qur'an.

Well, it is not a theft because a wife is a women who is legally married to you,she is not unrelated to you and after marriage she has a relation with you which is even appreciated by God and if a husband requires her wife to have sex with him then she should go for it because God wants husband and wife to have good and strong relation ,but please remember that the biggest aim and objective of satan is the distroy the relation between husband and wife, this is why you see so many divorce ratios in the world, and their is a hadith (I donot remember its reference) in which Prophet(pbuh) has said "satan enjoys the most when he creates misunderstanding between a husband and wife",because he doesnot want any relation to be strong and healthy which is appreciated in the sight of God".

Thats why the angels curse such women who doesnot have sex with her husband.

Please note that Islam is not against sexual intercourse, it is against illegal sexual intercourse which takes place before marriage or between those couples that are unmarried because sex is a gift from Lord and He has set perimeters for it to take place.

Let me give you an example, Is driving illegal? Offcourse not, but driving without a driver license is illegal and wrong. If you drive a car with a driver license then their is nothing wrong with your driving and a police will not catch you or give you a ticket.

In the similar way sex before or without marriage is wrong and illegal.

I hope you have a better pic but still if you need any further clarification, please donot hesitate to let me know.

Regards
Your arguments are contradicting each other, you say that Allah wants happy and healthy marriages ; you really think that having sex with your wife while she's not really wanting to but does it because she fears to be cursed by angels will make healthy and strong marriage?

If you want a healthy marriage i think you should rather ask the two spouses to take each others needs and wants into consideration, inclueding the wife's consent and wants in regards to sex. The wife will feel bad and opressed if she forces herself to engage into sexual intercouse with her husband out of fear for Allah's angels, one day she might not be able to take it anymore and this will lead to arguing and maybe divorce so i don't really see how it strenghtens the bond of marriage in any way. Besides, it is unfair to say that women get cursed and not men, i basicly don't want any of them to be cursed, but if there's equality does not make sense for one to have a punishment and not the other, like when the husband asks for sex, the wife will go imediatly, but when the wife asks for it the husband can refuse whenever he wants - i doubt many men will refuse, but well...it still happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahad1
nice question sir, but in Islam a women is not like a western women who can openly ask husband for sex, our women are mostly shy and cannot openly ask for sex especially 1400 years ago when the world was not modern and advance at all thats why we donot see such issues mentioned in the hadiths where a muslim women demands for sex from husband but I do remember their are certain issues in which women are reported to have complained for their husbands and even at present muslim women contact Islamic Scholars and Alims and complain about their husbands and ask about rulings of Islam over it.

Islam is not onesided religion sir,

And you said that muslimah's are not like western women who ask their husbands for sex. I understand that you want your women to be shy and not to immodest, but please, it is her husband! There's no need for her to be shy around him, everything is permitted as long as it stays between them so why do you want your women not to voice their needs when it's about sex? Why should the husband have the right to go ask for sexual satisfaction all he wants while the wife should remain silent about it?

I really hope that these is just a misinterpretation because i don't see why any wife shall be treated this way...


Peace be upon ya'll

DeistPrincess

Last edited by DeistPrincess; 1st October 2008 at 12:55 PM.
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17th May 2009, 11:40 PM

Not this old chesnut again ... ok here goes for my opinion.

First to the poster that said it is raping your wife ... did you read the posts which explained that "if your husband goes to bed angry with you .... etc" if a husband is allowed to rape his wife why would he go to bed angry with her for lack of sex?

Honestly so many people in the West have a vision of men coming home here and dragging their wife to bed, beating her as they go and then raping her.

I just asked my husband the following questions:

Me: If I wanted sex and you were not in the mood what would you do?

Him: sure I would have sex if I am physically able, it is your right

Me: Why do you think that Allah (swt) did not state I have that right in the Quran but He did state you have that right?

Him: (when he stopped laughing) did Allah (swt) have to tell men they have to breath if their wife asks them to? No man will say to his wife I am not in the mood but women will say it to men. Also as I said, women are physically able at any time but men are not always able.

Me: If I said I didn't want to would you ever force me?

Him: Would I ever stop being afraid of Allah (swt) and his punishment? NO. I must treat my wife kindly and fairly in all things so how could I force you?

Me: What if I said no many times?

Him: Then sure I would start to look elsewhere, that is why Allah (swt) teaches you not to say no. Sometimes you will say no and that is ok but if it becomes a habit it can break our marriage and Allah (swt) doesn't like divorce and adultery is haram.

I hope that sheds a bit of light on the subject for you.

It is not about making women do things against their will, it is about keeping harmony in a marriage. If my husband becomes frustrated he will look elsewhere. Yes he can take a second wife but this is allowed under certain rules and not recommended.

Islam deals with all things in society, even sex and a husband that gets bored with lack of sex. Women and men are different and particularly after having children some women never want to have sex .. what is her husband to do?

Many times I hear people in the West say marriage is forever and a husband should accept his wife doesn't want to have sex but that is asking him to deny his natural urges for months or even years. It's simply not natural and asking too much of any man.
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Bluebird 18th May 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:
I just asked my husband the following questions:

Me: If I wanted sex and you were not in the mood what would you do?

Him: sure I would have sex if I am physically able, it is your right

Me: Why do you think that Allah (swt) did not state I have that right in the Quran but He did state you have that right?

Him: (when he stopped laughing) did Allah (swt) have to tell men they have to breath if their wife asks them to? No man will say to his wife I am not in the mood but women will say it to men. Also as I said, women are physically able at any time but men are not always able.
I’m sorry, but this is false, men do tell their wives that they’re not in the mood when they aren’t in the mood. Yes, contrary to popular belief, men aren’t sex machines who’re ready to do it at any moment or any place, they are humans, and just like every human, they don’t feel like having sex all the time just like they aren’t hungry all the time. I acknowledged that it happens more often that women say no to men, but not at some point men never do.
As for that “being physically able” argument, women aren’t physically able when they have their periods (well they actually are, but I don’t think many would enjoy that). Normally men are “physically able” at any time (besides when they’re past a certain age), when they aren’t it just means that they aren’t in the mood (or have a lack of confidence). It is not only physical it’s also psychological. Sex is meant to be enjoyed by both partners; it’s not about objectifying your partner and using him to fulfill your desires whether it’s by force or by pressuring him/her so that he/she forces himself to do it even when he/she isn’t in the mood.



Quote:
Me: What if I said no many times?

Him: Then sure I would start to look elsewhere, that is why Allah (swt) teaches you not to say no. Sometimes you will say no and that is ok but if it becomes a habit it can break our marriage and Allah (swt) doesn't like divorce and adultery is haram.

If my husband becomes frustrated he will look elsewhere.

Islam deals with all things in society, even sex and a husband that gets bored with lack of sex. Women and men are different and particularly after having children some women never want to have sex .. what is her husband to do?

Many times I hear people in the West say marriage is forever and a husband should accept his wife doesn't want to have sex but that is asking him to deny his natural urges for months or even years. It's simply not natural and asking too much of any man.
Women are educated in such a way to be chaste and contain their sexual desires more easily than men, even here in the west. You will notice that men who have many sexual partners are being looked up to and called “ players ” as if it was a good thing. Women who have many sexual partners on the other hand are being called “whores” and “hoes” because the society expects women to be more modest and chaste than men. Though this doesn’t change much about the fact that both women and men have sexual desires, women are just taught to control them more. So it isn’t any less natural to ask a man to “deny his natural urges” for months than it is to ask the same to women. In fact, I don’t think we should call them “natural urges” only when it’s about men because women can be unfaithful too. In the west there are more unfaithful women than in Islamic countries because even though the society expects women to be chaster than men, it doesn’t deny women’s sexual desires either.
Like I said previously, men aren’t beasts; there are a lot of faithful men out there. In fact you’d be surprised of the amount of faithful sexless relationships you can find. These men are able not to have sex for a long period if they’re taught how to. How will they ever be able to take it when there wife is pregnant for example? This means months of wait, and if abstaining from sex was something counter natural for men, a lot of marriages would end when the first child is born due to unfaithfulness from the men’s part, but it’s not the case. These men stay because they love their wives and they want their marriage to last. Getting frustrated and looking somewhere else won’t make the marriage last. Instead of letting men looking somewhere else under pretext of their need for sex being a natural urge they aren’t able to control, we should teach men to be just as chaste as women and not congratulate them, calling them “Don Juans”, when they are unfaithful like most of us do. I personally believe that it is wrong to blame the wife for the husband’s unfaithfulness and vice-versa. Men will keep thinking it is normal to look elsewhere just because their wife happens not to be in the mood all that often as long as the society will consider it as acceptable. If you are able to control your sexual feelings and stay faithful to him even when he tells you “no” often then I believe your husband should be ready to make such a sacrifice for you too. And he is able to do so, saying that men should not be taught modesty because “it is just natural” for them to be unfaithful when they don’t get what they want only make men more likely not to control their sexual desires and do as they please because “it is natural” and it’s the wife’s fault if they look elsewhere.

I’m sorry if I sounded rude or offended you in this post. Not that I’m trying to impose my opinion on you. I’m pretty sure our opinions are so different that this debate won’t go very far and we’ll have to agree to disagree in the end, but I saw your post and the amount of arguments I disagreed with just forced me to object. Though I guess we have very different mentalities due to a very different education and life experience.

Last edited by DeistPrincess; 18th May 2009 at 05:01 PM.
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Judaism 18th May 2009, 05:26 PM

BTW, in Judaism, a man cannot force himself on his wife, plus he must do his best to satisfy her sexually. IOW, no slam, bam, thankyou mam.


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19th May 2009, 02:05 AM

Oh, grow up!

When you're both in the mood, go for it. When neither of you is in the mood, have a nice snuggle and kiss goodnight. When one is and one isn't, then each might consider the needs of the other, and their own ability to satisfy those needs -- and go from there.

What the heck does religion have to do with any of that? What the heck is love for, if it is not to resolve so simple, so ordinary, so essential, and so wonderful a thing?

And if you need religion to resolve if -- maybe you're in the wrong relationship.


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19th May 2009, 02:35 AM

I think religion has a lot to do with it. Religion is a way of life, with rules and regulations. If you don't agree with these terms then religion might not be for you either : )


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