Moshiach Ben David - The Messiah

[Jewscout]

ok so one of the biggest differences between Christianity and Judaism is the concept of the Messiah. I feel like i should dedicate a thread to discussing the Jewish concept of the messiah.

Who is the Moshiach Ben David? First the term Moshiach is the hebrew for the aramaic Messiah. Moshiach, for those who don't know, means "annointed one", such as the way a king or a priest is annointed w/ oil.
He will be a pious Jew, a righteous individual who will be well versed in Torah law and great leader. He will also be a paterlineal blood desendant of David HaMelech and his son Shlomo (Solomon) HaMelech (2 Sam. 7:12-13).

but to be all these things, a Moshiach it does not make. Rambam says in his 12th principle of faith dealing w/ the Moshiach that if he is all of these things then we can suspect that he has the ability to maybe be the Moshiach. What makes a person the Moshiach?

like anything in Judaism it is proven by their deeds...
He shall gather in the exiles to Israel (Isaiah 11:12)
Rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 37:26-27)
He will rule in a time when the Jewish people will observe the Laws of Torah (Ezekiel 37:24)
He will rule when the world will acknowledge that there is One G-d (Isaiah 66:23)
these are just a few of the things that identify the Moshiach when he comes.
If a person does not fulfill these things then they can not be the Moshiach.

It is said that (as in the prophecy of Micah) he will rule in a time of world peace, evil will not necessarily be gone, but that it will recognize the Nation of Israel and it's place in the world, as Jerusalem will be the capital of the world. Also the Moshiach will not have superhuman powers or be some sort of demig-d but rather a human like anyone else. He will live, rule in Jerusalem, and he will die. Upon his death his son will ascend the throne and rule after him and so on and so on until the end of time.

at this point i am open to any question regarding this and i will answer them to the best of my ability.

[martha]

Thank you. I have always wondered exactly what Jews believed about the Messiah. Finally an answer!
I wonder though, do the Jewish people know just exactly who are the blood descendants of Shlomo? I mean if this prophesy is true, I would think that there are some scholars who are keeping an eye on his family line. I mean is Daniel who lives in New York a candidate? Is Avram in Jerusalem in the blood line. Do you follow me? Who is watching to see? Who is tracing the blood line?
Or will it be that the Messiah will be born and do great things for humanity and then his blood line will be looked into.

Boy this really adds confusion. I didn't realize that the Jews believed that the Messiah would be human by nature. I always thought that we both, (Christian and Jew) believed He would come from G-d in a blaze of glory, so to speak. Gosh am I misinformed. Enlighten me dear brother.

BTW, what does the Ben in Ben David mean? Does it mean "of" or "from" ? It might be time to call the Rebbe!

[Jewscout]

Originally Posted by Martha

I wonder though, do the Jewish people know just exactly who are the blood descendants of Schlomo?

no one that i know of is keeping tabs on the bloodlines. if prophecy is true then the Moshiach will do the deeds prophecized and once he does that then we can be sure of his bloodline because only the Moshiach Ben David will be able to successfully accomplish all of this...

Originally Posted by Martha

Boy this really adds confusion. I didn't realize that the Jews believed that the Messiah would be human by nature. I always thought that we both, (Christian and Jew) believed He would come from G-d in a blaze of glory, so to speak. Gosh am I misinformed. Enlighten me dear brother.

well the idea of the Moshiach coming in a blaze from heaven is not unheard in jewish liturgy, but there are many different prophecies regarding his arrival and they are all tied to how man will be when he arrives, will we be the best or the worst of ourselves. But the Chrisitian concept of the messiah being a son of G-d or something is not shared by judaism.

Originally Posted by martha

BTW, what does the Ben in Ben David mean? Does it mean "of" or "from" ? It might be time to call the Rebbe!

yep ben means "of"

[Jaiket]

Very interesting. Thanks for the info Jewscout.

The criteria are quite specific would you not agree? Doesn't this give you cause for concern that they will never be met?

Oh, and before I forget, I've an off-topic question. http://www.jewfaq.org/ is a website I've been reading my way through, is it a good source of information regarding Judaism?

Cheers.

[Jewscout]

Originally Posted by Jaiket

The criteria are quite specific would you not agree? Doesn't this give you cause for concern that they will never be met?

not at all. i believe that he will come in G-d's time. Till then i'll wait and keep living my life doing what i do.

Oh, and before I forget, I've an off-topic question. http://www.jewfaq.org/ is a website I've been reading my way through, is it a good source of information regarding Judaism?

i think it's a good source for those who know little about the faith. It provides a good base IMPO

[Luguber]

Originally Posted by Jewscout

yep ben means "of"

Ben means 'son'. It's the same word as Arabic ibn. There are some other meanings, like grandson, and the 'group member' variations like in bne adam 'Adam's sons/children' = 'mankind', bne babel 'the Babylonians'. In Aramaic, it's bar, which you will find only in the late Bible books Dan. and Esra, for example in Dan. 5.22.

[Jewscout]

oops don't i feel dumb
ben = "son of"

[martha]

Good stuff!
Well my dears, coincidently a newspaper, The Jewish Week, out of NYC. www.thejewishweek.com, came into my posession today. There on the front page was a story titled, Lubavitch's Open Wound at 770. Apparently a plaque of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson was destroyed. The uproar is due to the fact that some of the followers of the rabbi believe that Rabbi Schneerson, who died in 1994, is the Messiah. They believe that he is still physically alive but concealed from sight. " I describe the rebbe is alive," Rabbi Sokolovsky said in an interview. " The body of moshiach does not die, even if it appers so." A tzaddik (righteous person) can materialize himself in the world if he needs to.
"Concealment does not mean that the rebbe has an invisible body," "It has to do with people's readiness to see it.It is peoples perception." The Rabbi Sokolovsky said he has met people who have seen the rebbe in person since he died. That perspective offends some.

It reminds me of the story of Yeshua, and how some Jews believed he was the Messiah, and others didn't. I guess what strikes me is that Yesuah's followers have stuck with him, so to speak, all of these years.
I also wonder have they traced Rabbi Schneerson's blood line to Solomon?

I am interested to know what my Jewish brothers and sisters think about this subject of Rabbi Schneerson?

[Jewscout]

Rabbi Schneerson...hmmm
i've read a little about him and that many in the ultra-orthodox see him as a messiahnic figure...personally for me, he may have been able to be a Moshiach but the man has been dead since 1994...and unless he suddenly shows up and does the things prophecized i would have to say that he is NOT the Moshiach ben David.

having the ability or potential and actually doing are 2 different things...