I agree with MV in that I do not feel that there is a difference in the spirits of people, animals, trees etc. being different....My question to you Dark Waltz is this:

Are you asking about the spirit of the tree (or soul, if you will) or the spirits that are drawn to the trees (tree spirits?)

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~Impossibilities are possibilities we have yet to encounter~

In shamanic thought, there are only three planes of existance; the lower world, equated with the roots of the world tree, the middle world, or what we see as the physical world, and the upper world, that of the greater spirits. Thinking of them as "worlds" isn't the best way, as they exist together, linked. Also, "upper", "middle", and "lower" doesn't mean that one is greater than the other, but is rather a way to differentiate between them, because though they are linked, they are each a different place.

When I'm doing shamanic work, most of that work is done either in the lower world or the middle world. However, depending on the task, I may request help from one of the greater spirits. My spirit guides all come from the lower world. Illness also comes from the lower world.

In appearance, the three worlds look very similar, though the upper and lower worlds are much larger than the middle world. Both the upper and lower world are extremely beautiful. The sounds and smells are the same as well, though there are none of the more foul man-made scents like there are here. Imagine being in the deep woods of a nice clean forest, and that is what they all smell like, though there are naturually flowers and such that add to the aromas. The one area where one might be able to see a difference is that the lower world tends to be just a little dimmer than this one, as if all light was through a filter, and the upper world is substantially brighter. The common near death experiences of seeing a bright light at the end of a tunnel is a glimpse at the upper world. Personally, I think that the lower world is totally beautiful...I spend plenty of time there, and it is like this world would be without machines and skyscrapers and planes and cars. I feel so tranquil each time I go there, even when my business there is grave and dangerous.

In my travels, I've not seen more than three planes.

In regard to the souls, if there was no difference between the plants and animals and man, the plants and animals would NOT life in the moment and would not be able to take everything as it comes. This is the only difference...that one extra component means that man, as hard as he tries (and he certainly SHOULD try) will never be satisfied with the "now". He will dwell in the past and worry about the future. Since plants, animals, and such don't have that extra component, they do what is necessary, when it is necessary, and don't whine about what has been, or what might be. You can think of the third spirit as something that "muddies" the soul of man, while without this component, those of the plants and animals and land are pure.

Oh yes....the reason I asked the question to you earlier is that I feel very distinct energies. There is the spirit of the tree itself. Then there are spirits that can dwell in that tree. Just as water has spirit, there are spirits of the water. To me they feel very different - as a person is separate from their home, but of their home.

There are a few places that come directly to mind when thinking of your question. One is a huge tree - great energy, but the spirits of the tree are more apparent. Another is along a river in the backcountry that I travel often. In a particular area, talk about water sprites!!!

What is it that you have felt Dark Waltz? Are you noticing any activity? Are you noticing a constant energy? Many tiny, but strong energies? Wavy energy, etc.?

Another thought, I just had...keep a part of your yard wild. It is a respect thing and can provide a home to fairy folk. I have done this this for over 15 years. In doing this consciously it can also help open your awareness of all that exists around us, including that which is not visible to the naked eye. Also pay heed to these energies...

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~Impossibilities are possibilities we have yet to encounter~

From my experience in working with the spirits, is that the problem with humans is not an additive to their spirit, but a misunderstanding of their spirit. In effect, it is the physical that is our downfall. I see the spirit suffering because of the physical, not the other way around. I definitely don't see our physical selves being a problem because of our spirits. Many humans can, have, and are living in oneness like the animals. Only after they lose there dependency on the physical. Not after they lose a part of their spirit.

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The only constant in this universe is change. Are you ready to change??

I'm sorry I haven't really addressed your question Dark Waltz. For me, my whole life is centered on being vigilant to the spirit world. That is why I call myself a Vigil. Through my shamanism, zen, taoist, etc... training. They all had certain rituals, ceremonies, etc... that would bring one into awareness of the spiritual. But they were all different. So I thought to myself, why are they so different when we can all do it all the time? So I asked the spirits, and they were all in accordance, they all said... Just be ourselves.

You see, we as humans think we are separate from nature, that we are either above it, or outside of it. But in reality, and animals know this, we are all connected. But we aren't connected with our physical bodies, we are connected with our energetic bodies. Interestingly enough, at the microscopic level, nothing physical touches. There is an electric charge that exists between the two physical things. I see the spirit as the energy that creates life within us, and within all things. So that electric charge that is between the physical when we touch, is our spirit. So in effect, we touch everything with our spirit, and not our body. Does that make sense?

Also, when the spirits said... "just be ourselves" this doesn't mean for us to be who we portray ourselves to be. It means for us to get rid of our ego, and truely "BE". That is the most important part of being a vigil and working with the spirits. When you can truely BE, you can truely be aware and vigil of all that is around you. Not just what you see, hear, taste, touch, or smell. But what you "feel" deep inside. Spirits communicate with emotions. So when you see, hear, taste, touch, or smell something. You must be mindful of the emotion it evokes. That is how you converse with the spirits.

One of the downfalls however, is if one is not truely "BEing", and is mindful of the emotion, it can often be the wrong emotion. Because the emotion will be biased based on the "ego's" past, or previous paradigms. That is why many will perceive the spirit world and label it. Words do not come close in any way possible to describing the spirit world. Even Rev. Rex and I argue over terminology because it is so limiting, when in fact we are probably experiencing the same thing. This is a problem with teaching about the spirit world with words. It's a totally experiential subject.

So with that said, I will discuss one way that I first started to work with tree spirits. Go out into the woods, or in your backyard, or something where there is a tree. Sit with your back up against it, and close your eyes. Put your hands palm down on the earth beneath you, or on the roots if they are protruding out of the ground. And truely let go. Let go so much that you lose your "knowing" of yourself, and you sort of "become" the tree. Feel the wind blowing through the branches, feel the water being sucked in through the roots and flowing up the trunk. Feel the insects rushing around in the bark. Feel the birds landing and flying off of the branches. Etc.....

Then you will witness the spirit world not through your own biased perceptions. But through an unbiases source of emotion. Does that make sense?

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The only constant in this universe is change. Are you ready to change??

Thankyou so much for your input and advice I could talk about this forever!
Master Vigil yes it does make sense I think I am hoping to get more connected I will follow your advice Constant unexplainable pull

In many cases, spirits do suffer, as you said. One of the things that a shaman sometimes does is seek balance for those spirits that are suffering. Most often, that is one of the three spirits within man, but it is not ONLY that. Of those spirits that will reincarnate, when a person's physical body is no more, some of them do not want to leave this plane, and yet others don't even realize that they are supposed to. One of the roles of a shaman is to ease their suffering and assist them in going where they are supposed to be. Also, sometimes one of the spirits that has never been within a man will be out of balance. Nearly every gardner has had contact with these. The physical manifestation can be (with the right spirit) that all the sudden, nothing at all will grow in a certain place, though there won't be any rational cause for this (using the science of man). That too is a role of the shaman, to restore balance to those spirits, and when that is done, things will again grow in that location.

To the original post, one of the first things that a shamanic student is taught is to make contact first with their spirit guides, then with the spirits they feel around them. Before they can do any more, they must master this. Of those spirits that wil be the easiest to communicate with and to feel are the oldest and most powerful. Very often, those will be the spirits of trees. They are not difficult to contact, but the thing that I always love is a student tells me excitedly about their first contact, and you can see the wonder and awe in their eyes.

Yes, my Pulsus excercises are designed for this purpose. For balancing our 8 energy spheres. One question though, if humans have this 3rd spirit, and that is what causes us to be unbalanced, how can one be in balance with it? Wouldn't getting rid of it be the ultimate necessity?

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The only constant in this universe is change. Are you ready to change??

It isn't the third spirit that causes man to become unbalanced. It is the third spirit that causes man to become complex, and yes, at times, it would be best if we had a way not to have that third spirit, but we don't.

What I meant is after the man has died, and the two spirits that will be reincarnated go to their realm, that third spirit that isn't going to have other incarnations can sometimes be unbalanced, and when that happens, one of the tasks for the shaman is to assist in balancing that spirit. Note that this is AFTER the man has died. And it has nothing to do with if the man was in balance or not, because this is what happens afterward. ANY of the spirits can become unbalanced and require assistance.

I get ya now.

One more question about the 3 spirits, are they all one? Or can they repel against each other?

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The only constant in this universe is change. Are you ready to change??