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8th February 2010, 11:51 PM

SteveC wrote:
Quote:
I've done absolutely nothing for the Haitians except sending money to relief efforts. I'm busy with other things.
Without the broad-based faith-related infrastructure in place in the Dominican Republic and Haiti itself (missionary schools and supplies, hospitals, clinics, faith based funding for technical assistance, food, agriculture support (and their 'travel related dollars') things could have been worse. But only now has much of the world discovered how to even spell Haiti.

One Baha'i charitable organization I am most fond of is the Mona Foundation, a Baha'i charity which has long supported the Anis Zunuzi School located on the outskirts of Port-au-Prince. The school remained stable during the earthquake and its buildings are now used as a makeshift clinic run by Doctors Without Borders. You can check out the Mona Foundation and the Anis Azuzi School here:

Mona Foundation: Our Projects: Anis Zunuzi School, Haiti

Which relief efforts have you given to? I challenge you and others here at IF to make an ongoing multi-year pledge to carry on with support, now that much of the news crews have left. Clearly, the Red Cross cannot carry the burden of long term support, it is simply not their mission.

Clearly missionaries have done so much harm in so many places for so many years. And I agree with EH that if all you bring is a message of fear, eternal damnation, division, repression, and a self-driven agenda, you should have remained home. --Steve--


That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 255)

Last edited by bahai9; 9th February 2010 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Poor word choice.
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Judaism 9th February 2010, 12:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Rev Chard View Post
Do agree with this metis?

Should your daughter and grandchildren escape the violence and go back to whence they came?
Huh? RC, I wasn't the one who posted above.

As for me, I sort of agree more with C_S in that I have mixed feelings. I have no problems with helping people, I have no problems with telling others what you believe in, but because of the vulnerability of the Haitians at this point, my main hope would be for the missionaries to concentrate on help and do the talking later.

What's this got to do with my daughter and grandchildren, and I'm not the one who said conversion was "violence"? I'm confused.


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9th February 2010, 12:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahai9 View Post
I think that's enough said...I think of the old adage about glass houses and stones.
Hey, Steve, I'm pretty sure you didn't mean how that came out sounding. Not everyone can up and leave home and family, fly to Haiti and attend to the poor. Sending money, as SteveC has said he has, is sometimes just as good.

And by the way, according to the Red Cross, often it's a much better alternative than our immediate resolve to "get up and go." They'd rather have the money to spend on professionals who can actually get things done without a lot of confusion and additional, wildly unnecessary, strife.


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9th February 2010, 12:26 AM

EH--
That did come out wrong; I have edited my post. And yes, sending money is what is needed. My point was lost in the poor choice of words as you pointed out. Thanks for setting me right! --Steve--


That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 255)
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9th February 2010, 04:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by metis View Post
Huh? RC, I wasn't the one who posted above.

As for me, I sort of agree more with C_S in that I have mixed feelings. I have no problems with helping people, I have no problems with telling others what you believe in, but because of the vulnerability of the Haitians at this point, my main hope would be for the missionaries to concentrate on help and do the talking later.

What's this got to do with my daughter and grandchildren, and I'm not the one who said conversion was "violence"? I'm confused.
I know you didn't post it, I was asking if you agree with it.

I was pretty sure that it wasn't meant as written. Not all conversions are acts of violence.

I was just trying to make a point about how statements can be taken at face value and be not what was intended.


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9th February 2010, 09:16 AM

As an aside, I would like to let folks know of the following:

Quote:
PUBLIC EVENTS
Haiti Earthquake Update - LIVE ONLINE

Wednesday, February 10, 2010
Join Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) for a special teleconference on the recent earthquake in Haiti, streamed live online.

The earthquake in Haiti has been described as among the largest catastrophes of the last 100 years. Thanks to the generosity of supporters, Doctors Without Borders was able to respond immediately.

Hear first-hand how our medical teams set up makeshift clinics to triage patients on the grounds of destroyed hospital structures; how we accomplished complicated surgical procedures in an inflatable hospital and tents; and the future of our work as we continue to address medical challenges the Haitian people are facing.

Find out how donations are being put to work. Ask your questions.

Location: Online at Ustream - Haiti Earthquake Update
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010
Time: 12 noon EST / 11 am CST / 10 am MST / 9 am PST / 8 am AST / 7 am HST
Link here:
Haiti Earthquake Update - LIVE ONLINE | Doctors Without Borders


That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 255)
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9th February 2010, 12:40 PM

If they truly go to help because they feel it's their religious duty to help then I'm for it.
If they go to help just so that they can take advantage of the situation and also prozelytize then I'm not for it.

I'd be intrested to know how many missionaries go to spread the word in crisis situations verses going to help, because people have nothing.
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9th February 2010, 01:28 PM

Maya--
I think a wide majority of us here at IF agree with you. Service is its own reward, as noted in many of our diverse Scriptures. In my own faith, proselytization is prohibited (as it is for many other faith traditions, e.g., the Quranic instruction that there shall be no compulsion in religion). Baha'i affiliated schools teach non-denominational virtues and principles, respecting cultural diversity as a multi-colored garden. And many religious/non-religious people of all stripes have provided assistance through their support of non-denominational aid agencies (as noted by SteveC, for example).

Personally, I don't have a problem with people who feel convicted with a religious obligation to spread the Word they believe to be essential for eternal salvation. But I do believe this must be offered through a spirit of unconditional love for our fellow humans, and one should not withhold food or medicine on condition of conversion. But of course there are, and always have been those who need to be reminded of Jesus' words re: the hypocritical Pharisees of His time:

Quote:
5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all [equal] brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. The New King James Version. 1982. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
At least, that is how I see it. --Steve--


That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 255)
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9th February 2010, 01:40 PM

My daughters school has been raising money for almost two years to build a school and a well in Sierra Leone. Due to the disaster in Haiti, the school administration decided the students should devote now give their monies to Haiti. As the account for Sierra Leone does not have enough money for the project to commence, nothing at all will be done. The same money that is being tossed at Haiti and will go completely unnoticed in the international deluge of bandaid solutions that will have limited effect, could have been spent on a sustainable development that would have increased the opportunity of the people of Sierra Leone to improve their own lot forever.

I have (and will) give no money to Haiti. They are no ally, no neighbor or friend. My own monies go to either Canadian charities, or to the reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan where our own military can assure the money is being used properly towards lasting change. Haiti is so much better off than many countries whose problems just aren't as flashy. Enough people are throwing money at Haiti, what little I can do will make more difference applied someplace receiving less publicity, and more planning.


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9th February 2010, 01:53 PM

John T wrote:
Quote:
...where our own military can assure the money is being used properly towards lasting change.
While I would disagree with a few of your assertions, you and your family's active involvement in making the world a better place is commendable! And I too was disappointed to hear of the redirection of funds away from Sierra Leone. There are many places in the world in need of continued support, and my hope is that people who can will reach even deeper to offer support to this Haitian people; not redirect funds from scheduled projects already suffering from diminished support because of the world wide economic troubles. --Steve--


That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 255)
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