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Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1
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Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1 - 21st September 2013, 11:44 PM

Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1

1. Christianity is not a religion.
2. The Bible is the word of God.
3. The Bible is true because it says it is.
4. The only marriage espoused by scripture is between one man and one woman.
5. Everything in the Bible must be literally true, or we should just throw it away.
6. America is a Christian nation.

A Provocation: Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1 | place in this world
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22nd September 2013, 01:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Chard View Post
Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1

1. Christianity is not a religion.
2. The Bible is the word of God.
3. The Bible is true because it says it is.
4. The only marriage espoused by scripture is between one man and one woman.
5. Everything in the Bible must be literally true, or we should just throw it away.
6. America is a Christian nation.

A Provocation: Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1 | place in this world
RC, I'll avoid a larger response until you complete part 2, but I want to answer your point number 6 -- "America is a Christian nation."

What does that mean? There are, after all, several ways to define, but I'll stick with just two. "A Christian nation" is one that believes that Christ is God, or "A Christian nation" is one that follows the teachings of Christ.

I suspect that many in the US believe that Christ is God. I find it intensely difficult to find evidence that most in the US follow His teachings. Let me provide a couple of examples:

The fight over "Obamacare." Congress has just produced a bill funding government, but only so long as medical care is NOT provided to all Americans. After all, there are only so many doctors, and if the poor have access to them just like the rich, why some people might have to wait days or even weeks to have their petty, non-life-threatening medical problems dealt with. Better that some should not even be able to get their life-threatening problems resolved than that the waiting list for a liposuction should grow by more than an hour.

Do you find that to be a manifestion of one following the teachings of Christ?

I won't talk about gun control, because in the US (where I don't live, thank whomever) that's an argument that's never going to go away. But I will tell you this: the US is much more religious than many other nations, but kill each other in a vastly inverted relationship to their religiosity. The US, for example, has a murder rate that is 3 times higher than Canada's, and almost 5 times higher than Swedens. Canada is more secular than the US, and
Sweden even more so. How is killing people indicative of following the teachings of Christ

I could, as I'm sure you know, go on in this vein for some time, because there's a lot of data.

Rather than do that, however, I would ask you a simple question: "what would a 'Christian Nation' look like?"


evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.
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22nd September 2013, 01:18 AM

Eh...He was stating those things as myths that shouldn't be believed. In other words....the US is NOT a Christian nation.

That was a wonderful rant though...I was nodding in agreement the whole time!


The sign of intelligence is that you are constantly wondering." - Vasudev
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22nd September 2013, 03:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Chard View Post
Twelve Myths Too Many Christians Believe, Pt 1

1. Christianity is not a religion.
with you on that one.

Quote:
2. The Bible is the word of God.
That one is always debated. I think it is said "It is the 'inspired' word of God"

Quote:
3. The Bible is true because it says it is.
Some say that… too superficial

Quote:
4. The only marriage espoused by scripture is between one man and one woman.
I think they mean it in context of homosexuality.

Quote:
5. Everything in the Bible must be literally true, or we should just throw it away.
Personally I have never heard that one.

Quote:
6. America is a Christian nation.
Definitely not. But was founded on Christian principles. How many clergy were involved in the Declaration of Independence? Was it over 25?

Practically all were of faith.
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22nd September 2013, 03:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist View Post
I won't talk about gun control, because in the US (where I don't live, thank whomever) that's an argument that's never going to go away. But I will tell you this: the US is much more religious than many other nations, but kill each other in a vastly inverted relationship to their religiosity. The US, for example, has a murder rate that is 3 times higher than Canada's, and almost 5 times higher than Swedens. Canada is more secular than the US, and
Sweden even more so. How is killing people indicative of following the teachings of Christ
I'm not sure one can extrapolate that comparison.

Those who killed… were they people of faith? Were they "in name only"?

Number are funny:

Quote:
What I find fascinating, however, is to look at murder rates for Canadian provinces and compare them to their immediate American state neighbors. When you do that, you discover some very curious differences that show gun availability must be either a very minor factor in determining murder rates, or if it is a major factor, it is overwhelmed by factors that are vastly more important.

…For example, I live in Idaho. In 2011, our murder rate was 2.3 per 100,000 people. We have almost no gun-control laws here. You need a permit to carry concealed in cities, but nearly anyone who may legally own a firearm and is over 21 can get that permit. We are subject to the federal background check on firearms, but otherwise there are no restrictions….

Surely with such lax gun-control laws, our murder rate must be much higher than our Canadian counterparts’ rate. But this is not the case: I was surprised to find that not only Nunavut (21.01) and the Northwest Territories (6.87) in Canada had much higher murder rates than Idaho, but even Nova Scotia (2.33), Manitoba (4.24), Saskatchewan (3.59), and Alberta (2.88) had higher murder rates. (Okay, Nova Scotia is just a teensy-weensy bit higher than Idaho for 2011.)
Perhaps there are other reasons.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/im-glad-that...-where-i-live/
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22nd September 2013, 10:09 AM

Not being a Christian here but I'll give my first impressions..

At first I was a little surprised to see

"Christianity is not a religion"

but then I recalled some Christians don't want to be considered simply religious... They want to emphasize their faith in Jesus or relationship to God...

Of course around tax time they might claim contributions to their churches as a "write off"..

The Bible as the Word of God I've heard a lot... along with literal interpretations ..so within Christianity I suppose you could say there are variations..

I don't know that I personally would associate Christians with owning fire arms although I'm sure some support "gun ownership". There was legislation considered as I recall that guns be allowed in church..

Ministers duel over guns in church bill | 11alive.com

There are still Christians opposed to gun ownership and some are pacifist so it would be unfair to lump them all together.

Last edited by arthra; 22nd September 2013 at 10:20 AM.
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22nd September 2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
Definitely not. But was founded on Christian principles. How many clergy were involved in the Declaration of Independence? Was it over 25?
That one.....not so much. Not one of the founding fathers can be quoted as being of any opinion other than that this country was absolutely, 100% religion neutral. And they were pretty vehement about it.

Which ones were clergy? I'm going to ask for proof on this one. Which ones had "Rev" in front of their names? Which doesn't really matter....I'm an ordained minister, and I'm as vehement as the founding fathers that this country was founded as much on freedom from religion as freedom of religion.

Quote:
James Madison:
"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on
civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of
political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of
the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty
have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson:
"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,
constitute the real Anti-Christ."
Quote:
John Adams:
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."
Quote:
Thomas Paine:
"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."
Quote:
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
(1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams)


Did you know that Ben Franklin was pagan?


The sign of intelligence is that you are constantly wondering." - Vasudev

Last edited by Summerhawk; 22nd September 2013 at 10:54 AM.
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22nd September 2013, 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
Definitely not. But was founded on Christian principles. How many clergy were involved in the Declaration of Independence? Was it over 25?

Practically all were of faith.
Probably true, Ken. Which is why they had such a bang-up influence on the writing of the U.S. Constitution after the Revolution in which slavery was declared illegal. Oh, wait. No they didn't. Never Mind. Kicked that can down the road, didn't they? Along with anti-miscegenation (racial mixed marriages) laws and a host of others. Makes you wonder if they were leading or following the public sentiment.

(:raig
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22nd September 2013, 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
I'm not sure one can extrapolate that comparison.

Those who killed… were they people of faith? Were they "in name only"?

Number are funny:



Perhaps there are other reasons.
PJ Media I’m Glad That I Don’t Have Canadian Murder Rates Where I Live
Yes, numbers are funny, especially when we pick and choose. I used whole nation stats, and you chose some very specific ones. You might wish to consider the demographics of those areas you chose. Nunavut, for example, is a huge, barren northern area extremely sparsely populated, and primarily by natives (Inuit) who have, since being marginalized along with other native Canadians primarily by Christian concern for "civilizing them." Are they therefore more troubled than areas of Canada that are not so marginalized? Why not compare Nunavut with similar demographics in the US -- for example those that have large proportions of similarly disenfranchized natives, or poor black communities.

Special pleading isn't particularly edifying.


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22nd September 2013, 12:24 PM

Concerning what America was based on, I found this on line:

Quote:


"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


Thomas Jefferson thought of himself as a scientist more than he did a politician. Consider that the "Laws of Nature" describe a materialist viewpoint, many times referred to as Newton's laws in the years following Newton's discovery of the laws of gravity, light, and calculus mathematics. (Thomas Jefferson greatly admired Isaac Newton and anyone who visits Monticello will see the influence he had on Jefferson.) Clearly Jefferson intended "Nature's God," not to refer to the personal god of superstitious Christianity, but of a physical god of nature, the laws of physics-- Nature's God. In 1809 Jefferson wrote, "Nature intended me for the tranquil pursuits of science, by rendering them my supreme delight." Clearly Jefferson thought of Nature as God.

... The God of Christianity does not come from this world:

The alleged Jesus said, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world." [John 8:23] and "My kingship is not of this world..." [John 18:36]
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