The only knowable experience about God is that God exists

God is always unimaginable and unknowable for any human being under any circumstances because He is beyond the dimensions of space and time and this is very much stressed in Veda and Gita. There is no second thought about this point and Shankara also told the same that God could be understood only in deep sleep. In deep sleep (Sushupti) there is no item that understands (Jnata) because the process of understanding (Jnanam) disappears. When the process of burning disappears, there is no fire. If you say that the process of knowing itself is the knower, then also the knower is absent because there is no process of knowing in the deep sleep. The knower can be no more a knower if the knower loses the process or quality of knowing. Then the knower is converted into inert item in deep sleep. In fact, this is true according to science also because the knower or process of knowing is converted into inert energy in deep sleep. Shankara means by this that God is unknown as indicated by the deep sleep, in which a state of total ignorance remains indicating that any one is totally ignorant about God (Sushuptyekasiddhah…). You cannot say that the knower or the process of knowing (Knowledge) itself is God, because in such case God is not eternal who is daily vanishing (converted into inert energy) and is daily born (inert energy is converted into knower or knowledge). This is not acceptable because God is eternal.

To evaluate the unknowable answer, you represent the answer by X and then get the answer for X using the given data. But in the case of God, the answer will be always unknowable and unimaginable only. The link between the unknowable God and the knowable items of the world is also unknowable and hence no related data of God can be knowable. In the problem, since the answer is knowable, the data related to the knowable answer is also knowable with the help of which the knowable answer can be evaluated. But that is not the case with God. Hence, any knowable item of the creation can be made as the representative of God. The only knowable experience about God is that God exists. This is established by the knowable experience of unknowable nature of God. The unknowable nature of God is experienced but such nature cannot be analyzed and hence such nature is always concluded as unknowable. For example a small boy (Krishna) lifting up the huge mountain is seen and the existence of the unknowable nature of the boy is experienced. Since, such nature could not be analyzed, it remains always as the unknowable item. Hence, Veda says that only the existence of the unknowable God is experienced (Astetyeva….).

You must be breathing something wicked from those "lotus feet" you sit next to. Maybe a nice hallucinogenic fungus?

How can you possibly say, as you have here, that "the only knowable experience of God is that God exists," and then in 12 other posts tell us all kinds of things about God, like he created us for entertainment, or he must appear in human form every generation, and on and on and on...

You are not peddlng anything but fanciful nonsense.

__________________
evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

evangelicalhumanist;

If a student comes and asks the preacher “What is God?” and the preacher says, “God is Unimaginable”; then the student asks again “How God created this world?” and the preacher says, “The process of creation is unimaginable”; the student will think that the preacher does not know the answers for his questions and will leave the preacher. This is the practical problem in revealing the absolute truth. The preacher should say the answers in positive way and the answers should satisfy the logical faculty of the student. Now you should analyze the basis of such logical faculty of the student. The basis is the observation of this world containing all imaginable items only. Hence all his logic is based on the observation of the nature of imaginable items and the relationships between the imaginable items only. This means that the preacher should say that God is an imaginable item and the imaginable process of generation of the imaginable world from imaginable God is in imaginable way only. Every sentence of the preacher should be imaginable to the student and then only the student gets satisfied.

The introduction of the word “Unimaginable” by the preacher leads the student to think that the preacher is ignorant. Hence to satisfy the student and to solve this practical problem, the preacher has to make certain assumptions and should preach about God through hypothesis only and not through real theory.

The reality is that the unimaginable God created the world through unimaginable way.

But to satisfy the student the hypothesis introduced here is that God is pure awareness. Here the infinite ocean of pure awareness is an assumption created because there is no proof of such ocean of awareness anywhere because you can find only the infinite ocean of inert energy. The infinite ocean of awareness is created by the preacher and such ocean charged by God can be treated as God Himself like the live wire treated as current. Now the student is satisfied.

Similarly, the creation of world from God should be also done through the imaginable way answering all the objections through imaginable ways only. This makes again the creation of another assumption for the process of creating the world by God. The assumption here is that a second unimaginable item called as the power of God is created which is modified into the world. Since the power is negligible, the world is negligible and maintains the existence of single God or Brahman. It is like the dream of a person created by the modification of the mind and the mind is negligible compared to the materialistic person. In course of time to satisfy the logic of students, changes in the hypothesis are made by Ramanuja and Madhva who introduced the assumption of a separate material, which is modified as the world without any connection to God.

The hypothetical assumptions can be varied for the sake of preaching the truth to the students in order to satisfy their logic developed from the observation of the world containing only imaginable items. This does not mean that the theories are different.

There is only one real theory that both God and the link between God and world are unimaginable.

But the preaching requires complete elimination of the word unimaginable and the whole preaching should continue with the assumptions of imaginable items and imaginable relationships between those imaginable items only. In such case all the assumptions are not true at all in the absolute sense. In such case you need not misunderstand that the three Acharyas are differing from each other with different theories of truth. The same truth is explained in different ways with different created assumptions of hypothesis for the sake of understanding of various types of mentalities of the students which are always based on the constant observation of imaginable items only (Ekam Sat Viprah bahudha vadanti…..Veda).

The final truth is known to Anjaneya who did not like to preach the truth through assumptions and hence kept silent in preaching. He showed the essence of all the divine knowledge through action (Karma) only because Karma can only be real and fruitful. His recognition of contemporary human incarnation and practical service to Him is the essence of the message of Anjaneya. For those who cannot accept the human incarnation, Shankara preached the divine knowledge with several assumptions and the most powerful assumption is that the soul itself is God. Shankara preached atheists and this powerful assumption attracted them to come and at least here the subject. All the Acharayas followed this method of preaching by assumptions to various levels of students who are based on the logic of imaginable items only.

Hi dattaswami .
Thank you for your post at the beginning as it was very good for me as l understood what was said .
If a small boy (Krishna) started to see unknowable events , and they kept occuring such as touching someone ill and instantly healing them and this healing ability kept occuring so much that the boy who by now is a man decided to find out " how it works", his touch healing application and it leads him to God . Would this be a "delusion" that this communication with God by searching for an answer which at the time had no conclusion be it God or neuro-science led him to God ?
If only through sleep and as you stated, then a person could not communicate in a reality or "seeing is believing" way with God as God will not communicate this way . Is that what you said ?
In your belief ,and thank you for educating me on this , you would have to believe , with NO exceptions or even a grain of " investigative thought " you must believe that Jesus was not the Son of God , and only perhaps just a Prophet or whatever but not God . Is this correct ?

Hi dattaswami and evangelicalhumanist,
and any outer space people lol .

If God is unknowable in our Human minds how do we know this then if we never can be in God's realms of understanding ?

Did God come to Earth and say that we will always understand His being as "unknowable" ? Without a nexus of Human and God in communication we only assume then that this way of 'God being ' is in the unknown.

I must assume that if we " knew" instead of " unknown" our lives would no longer be in Faith but in Fact and it cannot be that way so in that sense l do see what you are saying ,and life is great .

Oh hi evangelicalhumanist , how is Toronto ? I lived in Hamilton and Toronto and worked in Toronto .

God is unimaginable and incomprehendable, only way one can experience GOd is to recoginse the Human Incarnation present in this generation. Lord comes in human form so that we can approach Him without any tension. He comes in human form so as to uplift the human souls through His divine knowledge.

The world and the human body of the Lord give the proof for the existence of God beyond the world

The world and the human body of the Lord give the proof for the existence of God beyond the world and God beyond the human body of human incarnation respectively. You have not perceived the electricity in the wire and you have only experienced the existence of unperceivable electricity through the medium of wire and electricity is separate from the wire. Of course, electricity is imaginable for scientists and here it is used, as a simile only for God and the unperceivable nature of electricity is a comparison for the unimaginable nature of God. Except God, all are imaginable items and hence there is no other way than to choose an imaginable item as a comparison for the unimaginable God.

We take the unperceivable item or an item, which can be imagined with lot of difficulty as a comparison for the really unimaginable God. Awareness is an item of the world, which can be imagined with lot of difficulty and hence is selected as the best comparison for unimaginable God. Unfortunately, the concept of comparison is lost and awareness itself is thought to be God directly. One day the electricity in the wire compared to God by Me may become God! Another reason for such misunderstanding is metaphor, which is a figure of speech like simile. The simile reminds constantly that God and awareness are different items. But the metaphor misleads easily the ignorant people to think that awareness is God.

Only scholars can recognize the metaphor carefully. If you say that a person is like a lion, it is simile. The word “like” acts as the torchlight constantly to separate the person and the lion. In metaphor, we say, “The person is lion”. This misleads ignorant people to think that the person is actually the lion and they think that every lion (person) of the “Lions club” (A club of important persons who serve the people) is actually a lion, which will kill the people! Veda is the greatest poetry of the greatest poet, the God (Kavim Kavinam….Veda). Advaita scholars are also great scholars of all Shastras and they know this figure of speech very well. Alankara Shastra deals with figures of speech. They know the truth very well. But already they are so much intensively attracted by the concept of the soul to be God, that they cannot come out of this sweetest dream in which they get the highest without the least effort!

The dreamer knows that it is only dream but the sweetness is so much that he does not like to come out of it. A scientist is relatively better than such Advaita Scholar, who is caught by the powerful ghost of Mohini, because the scientist thinks himself as an ordinary soul and not God. You may say that the scientist denies God, which is the greatest sin. I agree to it, but if you analyze, even the Advaita scholar is also an indirect atheist. He is denying God apart from himself, which also means an indirect negation of God.

After the establishment of a simile, metaphor is used further in all contexts. A great person is compared to a lion and once this simile is established, the metaphor is used further and every important person is called as the lion. Thus, the lions of the lions club mean the important persons and not the actual cruel animals (lions). Similarly, it is established that the God is compared to soul and the universe is compared to the human body. Therefore, the word soul can stand for God as the word lion stands for the important person. Hence, in Veda the word Atman (soul) is used to mean God in some places. It does not mean that the word soul stands for the actual soul, just like the word lion in the lions club does not stand for the actual lion. At least in the first case the great person and lion are imaginable items and we can use the word ‘great person’ without lion. But in the second case, God is unimaginable and always needs an imaginable item for comparison. This problem becomes more significant when God comes in the form of a soul (human incarnation) where the word soul has to be used as the external cover (Upadhi) to indicate the direct address of God.

Unimaginable God and imaginable human form

The unimaginable God needs the imaginable human form as a medium for expressing Himself to His devotees. In the case of human incarnation of God also, you have only understood the existence of the unimaginable God and you have not imagined the nature of God as in the case of the limits of the Universe. You have only seen that the limits of space are beyond the sight and this does not mean that you have seen the limits of space. In all these examples, Maya (Unimaginable item) exists in the imaginable items to give a proof for its existence just like the unperceivable electricity exists in the perceivable metallic wire to give experience of its existence. The wire with electricity can be treated as the electricity itself and there is no other way than this to perceive the electricity. The electricity has to be treated as the wire containing electricity. But every wire is not electricity.

Therefore, the unimaginable Maya has to be treated as the imaginable world, which shows the unimaginable limits. This does not mean that every imaginable item in the world with definite limits is Maya. Therefore, this world can be treated as Maya (Mayamtu Prakrutim….Gita). Here the word Prakruti stands for the world with unimaginable limits and it does not stand for any imaginable item in the world with definite limits. Similarly, the person charged by God (human incarnation) can be treated as God but not every person. The world with unimaginable limits and human incarnation with unimaginable miracles can be treated as God (Viswam Vishnuh.., Vasudevah Sarvamiti…..) and this does not mean that the world or the human body of human incarnation itself is God (Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam…Gita).

Do not worry about the concept of Lord coming in Human form

You need not be discouraged that a specific human being has become God and that you have no opportunity to become like that in this very human life. The analysis of human incarnation shows the coexistence of unimaginable God and a selected soul suitable for the specific purpose of the divine mission of the God (Dvaasuparnaa….). When the divine program needs different angles of various suitable talents, God can simultaneously enter into the human bodies and make simultaneously existing human incarnations. Therefore if you make yourself suitable to the divine mission of God, God can certainly enter your human body and do a specific work needed for the divine mission through yourself. In such case you are also the human incarnation acting in a specific direction of the program.

Datta Swami is a selected soul for the purpose of generation of divine knowledge because He has the talent of the knowledge of scriptures and science suitable for that line of work. All the devotees who are working in this divine mission have different lines of talents and God has entered their human bodies also and is working in their lines of the program. Therefore, all the devotees who are already working in this mission are already the simultaneous human incarnations of God. That is how Datta Swami views His devotees. The devotees of Datta Swami do not accept themselves as simultaneous human incarnations and this shows their submissiveness, which is the basic characteristic of Lord Datta.

Datta Swami, sometimes declares Himself as the human incarnation of Lord Datta and therefore only Datta Swami has to be doubted! Therefore, the devotees who are going to join this mission in the divine service are the future human incarnations. The cosmic vision of the Lord (viswarupam) shows several heads and several hands. This means that the human incarnation is a complex of several divine brains planning in the mission and several divine hands working in the mission. Hence, the concept of Shankara is now concentrated to some extent only so that it is neither a single human incarnation nor that every useless human being is also the human incarnation. This is the middle golden path avoiding both the extreme ends.

This divine mission is teamwork of a selected number of simultaneous human incarnations working in different channels like fans, lights, TV screens, etc., in a hall. The same current is working in different channels through all these electronic instruments. You cannot say that an insulator into which current can never enter is also an electronic instrument. At the same time you cannot say that a specific light in the hall alone is electronic instrument. Therefore, let us join together to carry on the propagation of this divine knowledge using our various talents in the service of the Lord without any feelings of difference like superiority or inferiority. The difference in the channels of talents has nothing to do with the superiority or inferiority. You cannot say that the light is superior and the fan is inferior.

In Gita the Lord mentions that He is the best talent among each category. If all this best talents are grouped together, such best group of talents, which is a team of best divine personalities, forms the total picture of the Lord. The Lord says that He is Adishesha among serpents, Garuda among the birds and Arjuna among Pandavas. Adishesha, Garuda and Arjuna are sincerely involved in His divine service in all the times. Hence, His total personality is a composite of all these best souls. He is Krishna among Yadavas, as told by Him in Gita. Therefore, He did not specify Himself to be Krishna alone, even though Krishna is generating the divine knowledge (Gita). Krishna is also one of this composite.

" Hence, the concept of Shankara is now concentrated to some extent only so that it is neither a single human incarnation nor that every useless human being is also the human incarnation."

" All the devotees who are working in this divine mission have different lines of talents and God has entered their human bodies also and is working in their lines of the program."
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What is a useless Human being ?

How does a Human body know when God has entered their bodies ?

Please give this info to me in easy mooomooo language as l want to understand what you are saying , also mooomoo language is, is ,,,nevermind lol.

mooomooo;

God is impartial and He comes down in Human form in every human generation known as Human Incarnation. Human Incarnation is a composite of soul (Son of God) and God. GOd need a medium to interact with us so that we can approach Him. He chooses the best devoted soul (Son of God) and stays in His body from birth to death. God pervades the son of God from top to bottom like current pervading an electric wire. The absolute God is unimaginable and incomprehendable and beyond logic. Human Incarnation is the only menas to experience such a God. He can be recognised by His infinite divine knowledge which removes all our doubts and He also performs miracles whenever there is a urgent necessity and not for show or crowd pulling.

For a devotee for all practical purpose the soul (of the Human incarnation) and the God are one and the same. By this the service rendered to Him is directly received by the Lord.

Certain group of people called adavita philosphers tells that each and every man is God. This is not ture. The soul is only a created item only. Also soul can be imaginable and hence not God.

Lord is only present in the present Human Incarnation.

You should love Lord more than anything without any selfish motive. Your love is proved only in practise not theoretical worship which has got only 1% weightage infront of Lord. Working for the mission of divine knowledge propgation without any reward is the pleasing of Lord. Your main aim is only to please Lord.