Does sin exist? What is sin? Who decides what sin is?

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I do not believe in the concept of "sin" as I have usually seen it defined, which is typically something like "estrangement from God due to disobedience to the will/commands of God."

I certainly accept the idea of wrong actions, for which one should be held accountable. These actions, in my view, include those things which the law typically does not involve itself in, and which usually involve treating people in ways that are uncomfortable or counterproductive for them, but which are not illegal.

But I do not believe in the notion of "wrong" for thoughts which are not acted upon. I don't believe in the notion of "sins" that would include working on special holy days, if I feel like it.

As to who decides what sin is, lots and lots of people try, and the point of their effort is to get other people to behave in ways that they want them to. This is almost entirely about controlling other people, of enforcing one's own viewpoint and values upon them through making them feel as if they are displeasing God, rather than acting in ways that the sin-monger simply disapproves of. There's a hefty dose of controlling behaviour in defining actions and thoughts as sinful.

At the end of the day, however, for believers, the only sins are those which the believer feels in his/her heart of hearts estranges them from God. No priest, no pastor, no rabbi or imam or swami can speak for God, and neither can they speak for any other human being on earth but themselves.

So who decides what sin is? You do.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

I see sin as an act against life. Harming oneself or others would be considered to be sinful. These actions could also be breaking the law, but the law does not define all acts that are harmful.

I agree with EH, that working on Holy Days is not considered sin, even if it is suggested not to. There is no harm in working, to oneself or to anyone else.

Brings up an interesting question, though, doesn't it Rev? (Or perhaps several):

1. Is it always "a sin to tell a lie?" What if it is to tell the victim of a car accident "help is here, you're going to be okay," even when you know they will certainly be dead within the next 3 or 4 minutes?
   
2. Is it a sin to "take the name of the Lord in vain?" After all, who is getting hurt? Certainly, any entity worthy of being called "god" should be beyond harm.

We would most certainly have to remove "cogitatione/thought" from that list, wouldn't we?

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

In all its inherent value, no.
It is an invalid standard of morality that so called “righteous” people use to exploit over other people they feel are not as “righteous”.
Judgmental people, people who do not know GOD, people who forget to examine their own actions and responsibilities.

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

>>>Does sin exist? What is sin? Who decides what sin is?<<<


Yes sin exsits which is why the local newspapers are always full and never runs out of stories to tell everyday. Also the reason why so many poliecemen are employeed into jobs...

Sin is imoral behavior; Dishonoring your own body, having sex with multipule people, and not saving yourself for one partner whom you can fit to yourself and not burn for anything else, cheating on your partner, haveing sex with animals, having sex with close family members, having sex with babies and children, dishonoring your parents.
Sin is doing selfish and uncaring to other; Talking about people behind their backs, hating someone because they have something you do want, bragging, decieving people, being unmerciful, not doing what you say you will do, then trying to steal away what they have--even their partners, Actually having sex with someone elses husband-wife-girlfriend and boyfriend, murdering people...

Who decides what is a sin; Everyone decides what sin is, the person being sinned against who speackes out against it, the person who complains about someone sinning against them, the person doing the sin who feels guilty, the law, cops who arrest someone, Judges...

That would be crime, ShyLady. The police and newspapers don't concern themselves with actions that are perfectly legal, no matter how many people disapprove of them.
What makes any of those things "immoral?' Having sex with multiple people? Almost every adult on the planet has actually done that, I'm afraid. There are very few left who've only ever been with one person throughout their lives.

Cheating on partner? Well, if that hurts your partner, that is wrong because of the harm done, but not for any other reason. Sin is much more personal than that, and is not something one inflicts upon others. Hurting people is hurting people. No need to give that any other name (like "sin"). Call it what it is. Mean, callous, unfeeling, etc. But it ain't "sin."

Having sex with animals, and children? That's against the law, and for very good reason. They can't "give consent." That makes it a particular form of rape. Again, what need does "sin" have of the law. With relatives? That's wrong because of the potential for genetic damage, and for that reason this too has been made illegal. Illegal isn't the same as "sin."
If I hurt somebody, I have done wrong. I agree with that. If you decide you are going to label that "sin," that's fine with me. However, in my definition of sin, it always requires estrangement from God, not from other people. So for me, these are wrong, but not sins.
Once again, you are talking about laws. Don't get them confused. The instant somebody decides to tell me what I can and can't do on Sunday (or Saturday for the Jews, or Friday for the Muslims), I'm going to tell them to stuff it. Because their "sin" does not apply to me.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

If "sin" is separation from God, then in a sense, we're all "living in sin." I don't think this causes God any pain, though. It's only detrimental to the extent that we don't realize our full potential as creative spiritual beings. We, then, incur pain and suffering because we don't see the link between what we think/believe and our outer experience. There's nothing moral or immoral about it, just a process of self-development. The more conscious we are of our interconnectedness, the more we value peace and compassion. If, as the true definite puts it, sin is simply "missing the mark," it is an error that can be corrected with insight and experience, rather than an affront on God or a judgement that we're "bad people."

It's interesting to note that the more primitive one's thinking is, the more rigid and judgemental that person will be. Thousands of years ago, mankind may have needed the Ten Commandments - life was brutal, after all. It's sad that there are still people/countries who are at that level of thinking, but then again, we're not in their shoes. It would probably be alot harder to entertain higher levels of thinking when people are dying and stealing and suffering all around you.

That being said, I scratch my head over people in this country who condemn certain kinds of sexual behavior yet find it totally acceptable to support war.
I'm talking about the (supposedly) educated thinkers and spiritual leaders. There must be a disconnect somewhere, caused by their upbringing and religious conditioning or they would see how silly their views are. Case in point: I live in the Bible Belt, and every day I see women who have been brought up to believe they can't wear pants, cut their hair, or show their upper arms, for fear they would be sinning against God. Fear is a great motivator.

I think as we grow up (in a spiritual sense) we see less "sin" - or maybe we recognize it as ignorance. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" is another way of putting it. We have a choice - to see evil or to see a lack of love. Long story short - "sin" (like beauty) is in the mind of the beholder.

They are sins and I did have to use the Bible, the 1 chapter of Romans, to think of some of the sins and added a few ideas in with them.

Yes I know you don't like the Bible and you reject it totally. But I do agree with the Bible that these things are a sin. The bible has even more, but I only put the ones I cought right off without having to read the whole chapter. I agree with the Bible. Plus the few ideas I added are ones I particularly hate having to do with sex with children and animals.

The Bible says that in the end time, (and I know for sure you'll reject this but I feel like it is so true) people will be so imoral and doing disgusting things and treating it like it is right. I am not a great Christian and I don't pretend to be, and I commit my own sins, even though in my mind, so I don't pretent to be better than nobody. But the things I see reminds me so much about what the Bible has always said. When you can't deny the Bible is right and you just see it, not even having to read the Bible just remember the things you've read, its just there in your face as proof happening right before your eyes. Its time to stop playing around and wake myself up outta the trance the worlds had me in...

Sorry, I know I sound likea Christian Fanatic right now, but its my beliefs like it or not. I like you, and I could/well do respect you for sure, I believe that, but I just can't agree with you about my faith.

Hi Shy Lady - the Bible is a great source of comfort and strength. You're not "wrong" to use it for inspiration. Just remember that there's ALOT of stuff people used to call sinful in those days which isn't necessarily true. I think you're right about the idea of having sex with children and animals - in that case, mutual love couldn't possibly be involved. People who choose to do such things would not be mentally healthy. Common sense tells us that.

The problem comes when people take everything the Bible says about sin without thinking about whether it's true or not. Even worse is when people read things into the Bible that aren't there. For example, I'm a divorced person, but I honor and love my former husband and his new wife. I went to their ceremony of marriage. But when they decided to get married none of the Baptist ministers in town would do the ceremony once they found out they had lived together for several months. So, even though they wanted to recognize God in their marriage, it was refused because someone else decided they were sinful people, unworthy of God's blessing. Does that make sense? Likewise, two loving people who desire a ceremony of their union are denied because they are the same sex. Again, what basis do people have to make that judgement? What does that say about our concept of love? Is sexuality more important than love?

We've all been brought up to believe things that aren't true. It's not that we're at fault. I think it's mainly because of the fear and prejudice of our parents, who were brought up in the fear and prejudice of their parents, etc. etc. etc.... It goes way back. The thing is, we don't have to continue it, if we don't want to. Alot of the people around me are Southern Baptist, who once used the Bible to justify slavery, so it obvious that we can change.

(I apologize to everyone for posting these long responses ) - I just feel bad that religion tells us we shouldn't think for ourselves. Why do we have a heart after all, if not to see that "love is the answer?"