Okay, maybe the suggestion that reward and punishment are all that religion has to offer in moral teaching was over the top.

However, I can't help but notice how truly pervasive the notions of heaven and hell are in strongly religious communities. It can often appear (to an outsider like me) to be the case that children have "the fear of God" put into them from an early age. And there's no question whatever that the phrases "God'll get you for that," or "you're going to Hell, baby" turn up with alarming frequency. And I guess it always seems to me that our language betrays at least something of our conditioning.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

by me, yeah, but I have never told my girls that, 'God would get them for anything', or that 'They will go to hell for something they did', or 'Be punished for being bad'. I can't speak for everyone. I can only speak for myself. My children are learning the thing that they need to know, that are right and wrong and many times God is not even put into the thing they need to learn. I mean, yes, there is a lot of things children learn naturally. Like being good to others and not hurting them because the other person has feelings to. My daughters are always empathatic to other peoples feelings. Sometimes God isn't even thought about in most of the lessons my girls learn. Mainly because we are not a church going family and we are not strickly christian practitioners. I do feel a lot of guilt because I didn't raise them to be strickly christian practitioners, though. My kids learn about God, kinda, second handedly. Actually, I was scared to take them let them learn too much christianity, because I have read and seen proof that sometimes people who were tought as children to be christian believers, were so confused and messed up about it when they get older and they, may not be as perfect as christian docterin dictates, then their whole lives can be messed up just from some beliefs they don't even know for sure are real, but that they are afraid to go against. So I backed off of teaching totally christian lifestyle to my girls. They have never heard the things that I heard as a child. Like, 'Gods gonna send you to hell for that,' or when you do that your making God cry,', and even worse sometimes...

All of my children...three sons and a daughter were raised as Baha'is and I took them Temples, Mosques, Churches and saw that they were exposed to variety of religions.... Being Baha'is they also of course were expected to be accepting of other religions and principles.

I recall when I first explained some of the teachings of Jesus about turning the other cheek and so on... this was a difficult one for the children to accept. Later they had training in Karate and also received some Buddhist concepts about how to avoid situations of conflict... and Jaina dharma also contributed to this.

Seeing the results over time I think it was worthwhile.

- Art

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"it benefits us to be thoughtful, not of the glory of our minds, but rather, above all else, of the glory of God."
- Johannes Kepler

Well, I believe in my kids as well, but I really doubt you have never used some form of reward and punishment. I'm not saying they have to be harsh or that you have to yell to get them across, but babes do not form rule/role concepts without them. They can be administered in more subtle manners, but studies have shown if you leave two toddlers in a room with one toy, you are not going to see altruism flourish.

-TC

It might be hard for you to imagine, but no I don't punish my kids in any form. I have had them all their life I have raised them to believe in themselves, to feel loved and to love themselves. This is a prevention method that can be used to PREVENT things from happening. The other day I was asked what should a mother do with a child that hits the mother. I said I don't know. I really don't. I have always seen my kids as good, even when they threw a fit because I did not buy them a toy. I don't think it is so important how the child behaves but how the parents react to the behavior. If a undesired behavior is ignored it will soon disappear.

My 14 year old told me the other day that she fears going to highschool because of drugs and peer pressure. I told her that she has nothing to fear. I told her what I believe the cause of drug usage is and I told her what I thought a better way to deal with cause is. She trust me. I have never lied to my children. I stay in open discussion with them all the time. I am there when they come home and I take the time to talk about how school was.... everyday. I really think talking is the key, not judging them, but honering their choices, valuing them as idividuals and seeing them as equal members of the family and household.

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May your awareness be perfection

Dear T.C.
It might be hard for you to imagine, but no I don't punish my kids in any form. I have had them all their life and I have raised them (from baby on) to believe in themselves, to feel loved and to love themselves. This is a prevention method that can be used to PREVENT things from happening. The other day I was asked what should a mother do with a child that hits the mother. I said I don't know. I really don't. I have always seen my kids as good, even when they threw a fit because I did not buy them a toy. I don't think it is so important how the child behaves but how the parents react to the behavior. If a undesired behavior is ignored it will soon disappear.

My 14 year old told me the other day that she fears going to highschool because of drugs and peer pressure. I told her that she has nothing to fear. I told her what I believe the cause of drug usage is and I told her what I thought a better way to deal with cause is. She trust me. I have never lied to my children. I stay in open discussion with them all the time. I am there when they come home and I take the time to talk about how school was.... everyday. I really think talking is the key, not judging them, but honering their choices, valuing them as idividuals and seeing them as equal members of the family and household.

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May your awareness be perfection

OK, we're speaking two different languages here. Your child threw a fit, you did not reward him for his behavior. That's the reward/punishment system. If you don't want to call it that, that's fine, but psychologically, that's what it is.

-TC

Dear T.C.
How can be ignoring an undesired behavior be rewarding? If you give no attention to something you don't put ANY (good or bad) energy to it. To reward a child that throws a fit would be to enchorage the behavior.

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May your awareness be perfection

You missed what I said. I said you did not reward his behavior. You did it in a passive way, but you let him know that tantrums will not have a successful resolution to his goal.

Have you ever taught a child to write or read. When the child did the goal correctly did you ever exclaim "good/wonderful/way to go"! That's reward. A reward doesn't have to be material. Reward/punishment is the way we get children into the rule/role format. Whether you like it or not, there are certain rules and roles that are bound to culture that children have to master, and the first way this is accomplished is through the reward/punishment format.

I'm sure you consider yourself a good role model for your child (at least I hope so!) Sometimes consciously sometimes not, you mold your child with subtle reward/punishment systems. From the sound of it, most of your methods are very subtle and they are effective your children. But learning social ettiquette, peer interaction, and proper respect for authority have to be taught, they do not spring about naturally. This is not my pet theory, its well established psychological research.

I think you are getting hung up on the terms "reward and punishment" as particular to either gifts or physical restriction. If you are a wage earner, you still do so under the premise of reward/punishment: If I do my job well, I get rewarded/ If I do poorly I might get disciplined. Now, a person may grow out of this association (I do my job because it gives me personal fulfillment). But that doesn't mean the system itself isn't a construction of this principle.

There are many methods of instituting reward and punishment. One of yours is to challenge your kids to think for themselves in certain situations. So far, they have chosen a path that pleases you. They pick up on the fact it pleases you and it reinforces the behavior. I'm sure if they chose to do drugs and became addicted and started stealing money from you to pay for their habit that they wouldn't get the same reaction from you.

-TC

You are probably right, but that would never happen. As you believe so be it done ; )

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May your awareness be perfection