Since enlightenment is awareness of oneness, I do believe one that is entlightend is always enlightened, the difference is that he/she has a choice to interact or not with thought. He is free to choose. He/she is no longer controlled by thoughts, or better said thoughts no longer have "power" over him. Thoughts may still arise but they have now a neutral value. They can be looked at and observed, without given them a name or meaning.

I have found it easier to stay on the surface of thought.

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May your awareness be perfection

Thanks for that, LK. That's my impression as well. Letting go of the little "I" is not all that easy. We don't even have much reference for it here in the West. Paul talked about "taking on the mind of Christ" and "dying daily", but other than a handful of Christian mystics, there's not been many who have understood, much less achieved, that state. It seems to be changing though, with the increasing influence of meditation and spirituality and the study of altered states of consciousness in psychology.

Ram Dass talks about the fear of losing one's mind as the ego dissolves, only to find out that you gain your "real mind" in the process. Maslow talked about "peak experiences." There's alot of information out there now, some of it written within the context of religion and spirituality and some not. Sometimes tramatic events (illness, near-death, etc.) can bring about altered states which can be life-changing though the experience itself is usually temporary. From what I've read, it would be hard to maintain a physical body if that state is prolonged.

I'm reminded of the experience Eckhart Tolle talks about, which had no warning, and lasted for a couple years, during which he spend most of his time sitting on a park bench in total bliss. While that would be very nice, it might be hard for most of us to do that. And to those who have ever been in on of those altered states without preparation (speaking from experience), it can be more terrifying than it is beautific.

Another thing -When I get a little down that I'm not "there" yet, and find myself envious of the station of others, I have to remind myself of a couple of things:

1. We don't know how many lifetimes of inner work/contemplation
it took to prepare people to acheive an enlightened state.
2. There is probably a very important reason (or number of
reasons) for the experience, not the least of these being
a particular service to others.
3. We are "enroute" and are all joined anyway, so whether we know
it or not, we all benefit. Infact, the separation is "all in our
minds" - the veil which seems impenetrable is actually very
thin.
4. As we are being helped by those in front of us, we must hold the
hand of those behind us. As ACIM says "Without us, they would
lose their way. Without them, we could never find our own."
5. As a spiritual teacher once
told me, "90% of the journey is realizing there IS a journey!"

HeyV! When you say "stay on the surface of thought," do you mean staying in the Now? Can you elaborate? Or do you mean trying not to "engage" your ego? Thanks!!!

What is thought? Where does thought come from?

Everything we encounter enters our subconscious mind through our sences. The minute the subconscious mind registers the entry it looks for the right file and is stored, if the subconscios mind recognizes a pattern it forms a belief. The belief works like a program and we experience OUR reality.

Thoughts are of the subconscious mind. If we give attention to the thought we pull up the whole program. In order to experience suffering one has to 1) have thought and 2) give attention to thought.

The goal is to not work from thought (reacting) but to let the thought pass us without giving attention to it. This is what Jesus meant with "do not judge according to the appearance". To judge is to take thought.

We can by pass thought, which is only based on what we have programmed in our mind, if we don't go further into that thought.

Imagine a thought being a horse, you see the house coming toward you and you have two choices: you can get on the horse and ride it or let the horse pass by, without interacting with it.

Every time we let thought pass by, without interacting with it, we contribute to changing (eliminating) a belief. Thoughts are lies, they are dead.

If no attention is given to a lie, the lie looses it's power and disappears and truth is revealed.

By the way Angeleyes, you are "there"..... everyone is, but in order for "there" to become your experience you have to believe you are.

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May your awareness be perfection

I tend to think that enlightenment is not an either you have it or not situation, but is more of a gradual enlightenment that is so unlimited that no one could possibly attain total enlightenment. Or, to put it another way, the more we know, the more we know we don't know-- Confucius.

Shalom,
Vern

That leads us back to the question: What is enlightenment? For everyone maybe something else, maybe there is no concrete definition to discribe enlightenment.

To some it is described as heaven on earth, others say it's a feeling of constant bliss, others say that it is mastery of the physical realm and others say other things : )

The difference between an enlightned person and a not (realized) enlightened being to me is simply that an enlightened person can relate to all the difinitions of enlightenment.

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[quote=vivamis123]That leads us back to the question: What is enlightenment? For everyone maybe something else, maybe there is no concrete definition to discribe enlightenment.QUOTE]

I think that's because there's various forms of enlightenment. One form might be just knowing facts, but another may be the understanding of how the facts join together, while another might be what our dharma is in life, while another ...

There are some Buddhists who do believe that one, including the Buddha, could attain pure enlightenment, but I tend to more agree with the Theravadists who believe that enlightenment is gradual and that pure enlightenment is not possible.

Shalom,
Vern

It's interesting that the Dalai Lama says he is not enlightened. Some zen masters have said that Jesus was almost enlightened.

Regarding thoughts, Eddy Traversa says thoughts come from nothing and are nothing.

He also says that an enlightened person fully realizes the importance of synchronicity and is aware of how it is constantly working. The unenlightened person might not see it. My definition of synchronicity is matter meeting spirit. In other what is happening to us inwardly or spiritually is coincided to outer physical events. We draw the physical to us.

He also says his being enlightened doesn't make him a special person. He has students and he is very helpful to other people in their path to enlightenment. He believes in an afterlife.

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HHDL says he is not fully enlightened, but notice the word "fully". Many on the Zen raft feel that it is possible to be fully enlightened, but there are those who disagree, and feelings towards Jesus' enlightenment tend to vary as well.

Shalom,
Vern

I have been thinking lately that EFT or Emotional Freedom Technique could lead to enlightenment if used properly. EFT neutralizes negative emotions and balances the bodies energy. I think it's possible if a person used EFT daily on all negative thoughts and emotions that person could reach enlightenment. I think in a way it could surpass meditation in that emotions are not denied in anyway, the shadow would eventually become very minimal and make room for realization.

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