Here we go again, Jewscout.

According to Genesis, natural evil is curse God made to punish humanity, a curse that was triggered when Adam and Eve sinned.

Humanity does not limit itself to the Israelites.

Romans 13 reveals that God authorizes civil government for the protection of those who do good and the punishment of those who do evil.

So, God, indirectly, does punish.

In Genesis 6, God Himself executed the death penalty on humanity for the wickedness of the general populace.

General populance.


One of the means of God’s vengeance is in the hands of civil government (Rom. 13:2-4). Such government is a "minister of God." Involved in this power is the "sword": "for it does not bear the sword for nothing." This should be a reason for evil-doers to fear. It implies the right to punish; it is the power of life and death in punishment (cf. 1 Pet. 2:14).

First i should point out Galamount (aka Renaldo ) that as a follower of the jewish faith i really don't put much stock into anything from the Gospels. Please don't think i'm blowing your arguement/discussion off, but for me to take into account the Gospels as anything other than, at best, the document of a faith i have long since denied a belief in is rather pointless for me.

I will agree that in the book of Genesis HaShem is dealing w/ the world as a whole. This is because the covenant made w/ Adam and later with Noah was for all of mankind. Judaism teaches that all non-jews are to follow the 7 Noahide laws
http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm#Noah
You point out the story of Noah. This is a very interesting and fasinating story. Now first off, the situation here is that man had become evil and was doing evil
but this really has little to do w/ the relationship of worship of HaShem


i wouldn't necessarily call it a curse...there are 2 things going on here. First
HaShem punishes Adam and Eve for disobeying what He said, but then you see that he is given clothes to cover himself by HaShem and HaShem blesses them w/ children...

then there's something else...HaShem gave man the capacity to do both good and evil, giving us a duel nature.
We have a Yetzer Tov and Yetzer HaRa...our Yetzer HaRa is our evil inclination. Is this necessarily a bad thing, no. This covers things like hunger, greed and lust. These things, if controlled can be used to constructive and positive ends. But if they over rule you then they will become destructive.

once you get into later parts of Genesis w/ Abraham, and then finally w/ the covenant in Exodus, the Tanach takes on soley the story and covenant between G-d and the Hebrew people.

I'm sorry Galamount but my Tanach doesn't have the books of Romans or Peter in it.
Again i'm not trying to blow you off but realize that basically anything from the Gospels is not in my 'Bible' nor do i put any stock into anything that is written in them.

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Jewscout,

I think the problem we possess within this debate (and the horrendous neverending one at RF) is that we have two different beliefs and religions.

We take from the gospels what we will, both of us on a different scale.
You see HaShem, I see otherwise. It is but our opinions that caused that horrible RF thread (which I hope gets closed fast)


And that is what causes us to disagree.


Depending on how you and your specific beliefs, which you quoted above,
opinionize it.

And blow this thread of all you want, no harm done

Meanwhile, I am off to bed. Goodnight.

agreed

again i agree on this. For me to ask me to defend the Gospels is like asking me to defend the Quran. It's not my bag and i have little in depth knowledge of either unless it somehow pertains to the Tanach



well if you look at the verses opening the story of Noah you don't get the impression it has anything to do w/ the worship system and HaShem doesn't seem to be making any notions that it does...

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Hot water in here...


Hey you two isn't it better to agree to disagree? We as individuals all see things a bit different from each other. I believe in the Bible...if you don't it's still ok...right? I think there is truth in all our beliefs and perhaps that's ok too.

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Fromthe heart

This thread could go on forever. I think I will just settle for the fact that
jewscout and I do not agree because we have two different interpretations
from two different sources.

This isn't RF