I wouldn't go as far as to say necessary but, speaking from personal experience, I know it was a useful waypoint on my journey which, of course, isn't over by a long shot. Not long after I transitioned into atheism, I came across a quote by Descartes: de omnibus dubitandum, meaning all is to be doubted. I went through a period of following the prescription of this quote. Then it occurred to me that "all" includes the quote itself.

(Actually, I thought this quote was by Nietzsche at first and while searching, I found this: omnis persuasio carcer est which means every conviction is a prison. This quote can also be applied to itself: the conviction that all convictions are prisons is a prison.)

I think letting go of all former concepts and ideas about God can be a useful process; it has been for me. There is the possibility of amending beliefs about God, updating beliefs about God, and even going back to square one.

__________________
peace for all
love for all
bliss for all

...may your journey be graceful...

If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.

Angeleyes asks:


As you know, I agree with Simone as written in the "Simone Weil: Atheist to Christian thread." One of the biggest advantages for those who doubt like the atheist is that it keeps them free of La la land which is a hard place to leave.

Then whe a person's supernatural parts can begin to awaken, these parts have a realistic foundation on which to develop.

What would La La Land be, and why would it be hard to leave? What I gather you're saying is that atheism could come from questionning the La La Land- type of thinking...? When does a person's "supernatural parts" begin to awaken then?

Not debating, just clarifying....

I see nothing wrong with being in La, la land. The air is clean and and the view clear up here : )

__________________
May your awareness be perfection

"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life.

Imagination is always the fabric of social life and the dynamic of history. The influence of real needs and compulsions, of real interests and materials, is indirect because the crowd is never conscious of it." Simone Weil

Viv and Angeleyes

I use the term "La la land" to represent the imaginary land that takes the place of man's possible conscious life. A person sacrifices their human potential of conscious freedom through imagination. This old Eastern tale is a parable that addresses the hold of imagination and its consequences and assures the "Great Beast" that not many of humanity will stray from the fold. Take from it what you will:

Poor sheep! I assume the sheep resents us, am I right? Does the magician respresent God, or our imaginary God, or our imagination?

Is the word "imagination" another word for false self or limited identity? I wonder how Simone thought of it when she used it. It seems to have more meaning to her than simple daydreaming or creativity. Maybe the French word has a slightly different meaning than what it means in English??

Angeleyes.

Nothing in the universe remains the same. Everything is changing and either serves to process of involution or evolution. We are the sheep. Unlike the rest of organic life on earth that serves the process of involution, Man has the potential for conscious evolution. It is imagination that denies consciousness.

Man is asleep in Plato's cave and content in his dreams. His fantasy sacrifices his potential for this contentment and serves the magician which is the needs of the earth that keeps Man collectively on the level of Plato's "Great Beast"

Imagination is not the same as creative thought or directed attention but is rather the function that takes the place of conscious attention. Imagination is creating our own reality that doesn't exist but allows us to psychologically live in hypocrisy. Imagination denies conscious life and evolution so keeps Man as he is ins service only to the cycles of the earth. Regardless of fine speeches, Man only serves the purpose of the earth through our life processes just as the rest of organic life does.

It is the Individual, the "black sheep," that can awaken to reality and begin to comprehend the human condition for what it is.

To me, it's generally better to have too many options than too few. Theism, atheism, agnosticism, secular philosophy, etc. all add to that which we can contemplate. For each of us, we probably reached a point in our life whereas we began to challenge that which we were brought up to believe. For me, even though I'm 62 years young, the process, for better or worse, has never stopped. Sometimes I wish it would so I could have the satisfaction of resting in the comfort of believing that I have the answers to life. However, that just has never been in the cards for me.

I am what I am, and I've come to finally accept that.

Shalom,
Vern

"I will repeat what I said, Atheism allows people to reject others beliefs and arguments without actually considering them, or considering them in a superficial and frequently caricatured way. "


OK so, we may just be a for instance.....however, my significant other being raised by a Mormon father and Xtian mother and him being an atheist is because he didn't want to explore other beliefs or rather disregard them without educating himself on them? And myself, having practiced as an Xtian at an early age, having gone to several sects of xtianitys churches and studied buddism, taoism, Jehovah-ism, Judaism, Islam, Shamanism, Pagan, Druidism, Wicca, mythologies of the Greeks, Egyptians, Romans, Celts, and the Norse. And all my years in the Native American Pow Wow circuit. All of this is for not. We merely chose to be atheists because we are lazy and do not want to have to listen to other religions 'crap'. Am I right? Come on over and check my library.

Atheism is a major step on the path of spirituality. Nearly all the atheists I know have come to the conclusion to be atheists after much soul searching and education. Having felt needless to go to a place of worship and be told that they must live a certain way in order to get to heaven or else. Who cares?? We'll be DEAD.

And all this fighting about religion anyways....what is the basis of just about all the major religions of the world? love your fellow man, know forgiveness, share your bounty, all will work out in the end. You know, just like when we were all 5. But instead we start major wars merely on the basis of my God (or lack there of) is better than yours. Theres your sophomoric tendencies for you.

__________________
- Wisdom comes when you stop looking for it. -
"If God were alive today, he'd be an atheist" - Kurt Vonnegut

Please visit my foster dog blog: The Colbert Report.

Hi Wendy

I respect what you are saying but let me ask you an honest question. Do you believe that what Simone Weil writes in the following excerpt could be true for you or do you discount it as impossible for you?