Spong

**metis** · #1 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2007, 12:32 AM

Spong
Message:
Many of you know who Bishop Spong is along with the fact that he's a well recognized, but controversial, theologian. I finally just finished reading his "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism: A Bishop Rethinks the Meaning of Scripture" and I thought it would be interesting starting an evolving thread dealing with some of his ideas (I did much the same a couple of years ago on boards with Harris' "The End of Faith" whereas I posted certain ideas from Harris one at a time over about a two month period). So I'll introduce one idea of Spong and then do another early next week (I'll be unavailable for the latter part of this week as I'll be moving locations). So here goes the first, which actually is his overall summary near the end of his book:

"The experience of Jesus is the experience of love. This love was a powerful life-affirming reality. It was love that broke every human barrier and that swept over every human prejudice. It was love that would not be confined by the Jewish limits in which it was born. It embraced the Syro-Phoenician woman and the Samaritan. it was love that put human life before religious rules (The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath). it was love that transcended the religious definitions of what it was thought to be clean and unclean. Not only gentiles, but lepers, prostitutes, tax collectors, and thieves were very transformed with the power of love.

No barriers could be erected around that love of God that was seen in the life of Jesus. It was a terrifying, barrier-free love that rendered our religious security systems no longer operative. Such a love called for profound changes in the human psyche. Such love called for openness, for the death of prejudice, for the radical insecurity of a fully accessible humanity, for the end of any human isolation. Such love could not be tolerated; rather, it had to be eliminated. The cross was a necessity if human life was unwilling to be opened this widely, and human life was, in the first century, quite unwilling to be made so vulnerable...

The God who is love cannot be approached in worship except through the experience of living out that unconditional quality of love. That is why the church must be broken open and freed of its noninclusive prejudices. That is why slavery, segregation, sexism, bigotry, and homophobia tear at the very soul of the church.

A church that calls itself the body of Christ cannot reject or oppress or define pejoratively one who is the recipient of the overwhelming love of God. To do so is to deny Christ. IT is to play church. When that occurs, the marks of death are seen in that institution. Those marks are present when the refusal to upset the religious folk becomes a higher priority for the church than the search for truth or the demand for justice" (Spong, p. 237-239).

Shalom,
Vern

**angeleyes** · #2 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2007, 01:45 AM

Thanks metis!

That made my day!

Lightkeeper · #3 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2007, 02:17 AM

I never have understood how anyone could say they accept Jesus and then are bigoted and hateful. I think "openness" is the key word. It seems to be a very difficult thing for some to grasp. I have felt that the fear of openness is a lack of desire to take responsibility for ones own life and actions.

wwwdlhow27 · #4 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2007, 03:10 AM

It is the "simple" Truth of Unconditional Love! God is unconditional love, Christ was it's manifestation through Jesus. Unconditional love is the door to Oneness, Perfect Unity, to our eventual return to At-One-Ment with God and the end of our cycle of incarnations.

The "Key" to unconditional love is "seeing " God in everything and everyone (because we ARE ONE) and finding that tkey lies in forgiving!

Nick_A · #5 (**permalink**) 23rd October 2007, 03:45 AM

Bishop Spong denies the Resurrection and Christian re-birth. The esssence of Christianity is re-birth. Without it, Christianity loses its unique purpose, becomes a dead religion, and Simone's words are the rantings of a mad woman.

Quote:

"The extreme greatness of Christianity lies in the fact that it does not seek a supernatural remedy for suffering, but a supernatural use for it." -- Simone Weil

Quote:

1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection of Christ

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

The Resurrection of the Dead

12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die."[d] 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.

Spong's assertions are only expressions of Secular Christendom against beliefs of Fundamentalist Christendom. Each contains partial truths. But, as is said, "the devil is in the details." None of this are expressions of the wholeness of Christianity.

I'll stick with Paul and Simone.

**metis** · #6 (**permalink**) 25th October 2007, 03:17 AM

Just a quick note to all that I'll be away until next week, and I'll try to catch up with you all then.

Take care and shalom,
Vern

cardero · #7 (**permalink**) 25th October 2007, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_A

I'll stick with Paul and Simone.

Nobody liked Jesus except the people who followed him. Even then, some were not sure why they LOVED him. Women who experienced LOVE one way found Jesus unapproachable. They couldn't UNDERSTAND why he LOVED them but didn't want to make LOVE to them. Men were just as confused. They couldn't TRUST their LOVE with Jesus because he brought out their LOVE so UNCONDITIONALLY. Jesus did not look at people as men or women. He LOVED them equally, whole-heartedly, with his complete soul. This just didn't wash with many people.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Jesus The Christ
Pg: 119

The only "un" that LOVE is – is UNCONDITIONAL.

HELLO IT’S ME: An Interview With GOD
Chapter: Truth, Love and Understanding
Pg: 140

I'll stick with Spong and GOD

Nick_A · #8 (**permalink**) 25th October 2007, 04:48 PM

Cardero, there is an old Sufi expression that says: "He who believes he is looking at the face of God is looking at the face of the Devil."

That being the case, I have a pretty good idea which deity is being interviewed.

You may want to stick with Spong and God, but they may not be related as you believe.

cardero · #9 (**permalink**) 25th October 2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Cardero, there is an old Sufi expression that says: "He who believes he is looking at the face of God is looking at the face of the Devil."

Does this superstitious expression apply to everyone who claims to receive inspiration from a BEing entitled GOD or is this privilege designated only to a few deceased primitives?

Nick_A · #10 (**permalink**) 25th October 2007, 10:58 PM

Such expressions are the ramblings of primitive Sufis eh? That must include that incomparable enlightened spiritual being known to many as the one and only Mullah Naserddin.

When he was asked the following question he answered in a way even a secularist like Spong could not secularize into oblivion

Quote:

"Light at Night:"

One day, someone asked Molla, "Which is more valuable to man, the sun or the moon?"

"The moon, of course, because we need more light at night."

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