http://www.whitefishpilot.com/articl...ews/news02.txt

I have no idea where the nun got that particular insight, since I can think of no biblical authority for such a pronouncement, and I am not aware of any passage in the Catechism that would support it, either (and I can cite at least one (339 -- http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p5.htm#II) that seems to indicate no objection to the idea that animals go to heaven.

Still, the nun is not the only one I have heard (or heard of) expressing this opinion.

But I wonder what others think....is there some grounds for this position?

Also, I wonder if the comment by Mr Donnelly is correct....is a religion that ignores or denies the souls of animals a place in their eschatology somehow deficient??

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Grassaf, Eolas

I have no clue on this matter, but I heard that some believe we evolve from animal into humans; humans, being the highest form we can evolve to, then rise into heaven.

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May your awareness be perfection

If you feel that there are grounds for your particular position, then I imagine you would have to accept that there are gounds for this one... otherwise, no.

This is a question only you can answer for it to have any meaning, I think.

Perhaps I phrased it a bit obliquely, but I think it was fairly clear that what I am asking is for someone who feels this way to explain what those grounds are.


I already have an answer...I am curious what others think. That seems, to me at least, to be the point of a forum for discussion and debate.

Anyway...I will simply put you down in the "Has no opinion" category. Thanks.

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Grassaf, Eolas

I'm not sure that I agree. I have met animals that seemed far more spiritually evolved than some of the humans I have met, or corresponded with. That could be anthropomorphising, of course.

And it also assumes we are the highest spiritual form of evolution. That's somethign we take totally on faith...we may be right but, then again, we could be wrong.

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Grassaf, Eolas

I am curious, what is it?

That about sums me up!

Heaven is a higher level level of reality, abovce the earth, associated with conscious life. Animals lack consciousness and arose from the earth to function as living machines for the benefit of the earth. There is no seed of a soul in them that can become conscious. All organic life just continues in the cycles from "dust to dust."

Man has the seed, the potential for higher conscious life through the process of conscious evolution, so the potential for levels of heaven. It is no knock on animal life since they serve the purpose they were created for. If anything it is a knock on mankind that so few are aware of their conscius potential and instead only follow the cycles from dust to dust with the rest of animal life.

I think that animals are evolving souls, moving 'up' the ladder of the evolution of consciousness, until they reach the same state which we have achieved -- self-awareness, and the ability to contemplate that self-awareness.
I realise that this can be seen as an anthropocentric position, but there is very little evidence of self-awareness shown by the vast majority of other species and life-forms.

My position is simple -- animals have souls, and are equally as valuable to the the cosmos as are humans.


Peace, Love, & Light

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"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

Good post Aged Hippy!

Eolas,
I agree that some animals seem to be more spiritual than some humans : )What if we had it all wrong? What if we (as humans) are on the lowest level and develope from no consciousness to full consciousness realizing ourselves as no consciousness. Would we be animals again?

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May your awareness be perfection

If I can't meet my dog that passed away several years ago in heaven (or nirvana), then I don't want to go.

BTW, since many animals can reason, have morals, and not just rely on instinct, I can find no logical reason why they should be impuned with a lesser status from a creator (if there is one-- or two-- or...).

Shalom,
Vern