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Religious Debate Debate religions and religious topics.

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Old 12th November 2007, 03:52 PM
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Common Denominator

Quote:
"I believe that one identical thought is to be found--expressed very precisely and with only slight differences of modality-- in. . .Pythagoras, Plato, and the Greek Stoics. . .in the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita; in the Chinese Taoist writings and. . .Buddhism. . .in the dogmas of the Christian faith and in the writings of the greatest Christian mystics. . .I believe that this thought is the truth, and that it today requires a modern and Western form of expression. That is to say, it should be expressed through the only approximately good thing we can call our own, namely science. This is all the less difficult because it is itself the origin of science." Simone Weil....Simone Pétrement, Simone Weil: A Life, Random House, 1976, p. 488

Perhaps for interfaith to be truly meaningful would require those interested to contemplate beyond the normal secular common ideals such as peace and find a deeper commonality suggesting the source of all these paths.

I believe that Simone came to understand it. Perhaps I'm wrong. So what do you think she means by "this thought is the truth?" Is there a thought that is at the essence of the great traditions she mentions?
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Old 12th November 2007, 04:50 PM
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The common thread is a variation of the "Golden Rule". "Do unto others……"
Every World Religion, including Islam, has at it's core the premise to treat other's as you would want to be treated.

Please see: http://www.unification.net/ws/theme015.htm, for examples of this Truth.
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Last edited by wwwdlhow27 : 12th November 2007 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 12th November 2007, 05:05 PM
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Baha'is believe there is a common Source of all the great religions and that they all share common spiritual and many ethical teachings ...where they differ is in ordinances and cultural glosses..that is varieties of language and social customs.

I've been involved in programmes centered on interfaith dialogue for a few years and what happens during these sessions is very interesting because they learn that there are common concepts among them and they are not nearly so different as at first they may suppose...

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Old 12th November 2007, 05:54 PM
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Hello to all so far willing to respond,

Assuming Simone is on to something, how will science verify your claims and how are they the origin of science?
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Old 12th November 2007, 06:21 PM
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I think a common thread is "gratitude". Gratitude may be the base source of all things. It leads to peace. If in a state of gratitude you treat others and yourself well. It is acceptance. With acceptance comes change and growth. If one is given a gift and shows no gratitude, they will most likely not receive another. Some may be afraid to be thankful, because they think they would stay in that place and not recieve more. It's just the opposite, the more gratitude you have, the more you receive.

Simone may have meant, what you think becomes your truth.
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Old 12th November 2007, 07:10 PM
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I find her insight far more understandable after reading this other insight:

Quote:
“The sea is not less beautiful to our eye because we know that sometimes ships sink in it. On the contrary, it is more beautiful still. If the sea modified the movement of its waves to spare a boat, it would be a being possessing discernment and choice, and not this fluid that is perfectly obedient to all external pressures. It is this perfect obedience that is its beauty.”

“All the horrors that are produced in this world are like the folds imprinted on the waves by gravity. This is why they contain beauty. Sometimes a poem, like the Iliad, renders this beauty.”

“Man can never escape obedience to God. A creature cannot not obey. The only choice offered to man as an intelligent and free creature, is to desire obedience or not to desire it. If he does not desire it, he perpetually obeys nevertheless, as a thing subject to mechanical necessity. If he does desire obedience, he remains subject to mechanical necessity, but a new necessity is added on, a necessity constituted by the laws that are proper to supernatural things. Certain actions become impossible for him, while others happen through him, sometimes despite him.”

Excerpt from: Thoughts without order concerning the love of God, in an essay entitled L'amour de Dieu et le malheur (The Love of God and affliction). Simone Weil

The idea here is that the universe is governed by laws. In Christianity the revelation of these laws is the revelation of the means for God's will to manifest. In Buddhism I know this as the dharma which the Buddhist strives to understand. It seems to me that the purpose of all the great traditions and their common truth is that these laws exist and that Man can change what he IS, his quality of objective consciousness, and in this way provide a greater qualitative response to the flows of Creation. The great traditions seek to teach us how to become open to the experience of the dharma or the lawful expression of God's will.

Quote:
the teachings of the Buddha; the law, doctrine, or ethical precepts of Buddhism; an underlying cosmic principle taught by the Buddha; constituent element of reality; a phenomenon. The complex of religious and social obligations that a devout s required to fulfil; right action, duty, morality, virtue
www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/SDLE/Glossary.htm

Laws of truth that govern the universe. A yoga practitioner seeks to live in harmony with the flow of highest truth.
www.shoshoni.org/Glossary_Yoga_Terms.htm

All these definitions imply that there are objective universal laws that are possible for man to experience and to eventually become conscious of that would provide the means for Man gradually acquiring consciousness to experientially discover objective meaning and purpose.

It would be impossible for science to be separate from these universal laws that define all phenomenon under scientific investigation so science becomes an additional though limited means for comprehending and manipulating their expression.
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Old 12th November 2007, 07:24 PM
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What do you think the universal laws are?

How are we obedient to God?
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Old 12th November 2007, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
What do you think the universal laws are?

How are we obedient to God?

We are not conscious of it but like all life, we are part of a great interaction on earth within which everything eats everything else. This is obedience to laws. Life in the jungle is reactions (obedience) to natural laws. It is the same with us. We only imagine choice.

LK, this is hard to describe in a post but my research has indicated that there are two great laws from which all the various subdivisions occur.

The first is the Law of Octaves as expressed by Pythagoras and his knowledge of vibrations. The space between each point in the octave is not the same and it is this unevenness that allows the universe to turn in circles and continue function. It also keeps us as we are turning in circles.

The second is based on unity as three as in the Holy Trinity. Up until recently science was content with the law of excluded middle where something cannot exist simultaneously as both A and not A.. However, there is increasing awareness of the Law of Included middle as understood by scientists such as Basarab Nicolescu. This law says that there is a middle in which both A and Not A can exist. For example hot and cold can exist as one within this perspective. Yet on earth we cannot perceive a perspective in which both hot and cold are simultaneously present.

The law of the included middle is what Cosmology is based on and explains Plato's world of forms in relation to life as we know it.

The importance for Man is that the more conscious Man is, the less his life is lived by laws. Many subdivisions are unnecessary for Man since laws compensate for the lack of consciousness. This is the direction of conscious evolution and freedom from madness natural for both conflicting laws and for cave life.
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Old 14th November 2007, 03:00 AM
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LK; "what do you think the universal laws are?"

Google: "The 105 Universal Laws"

This list is very interesting, universal and surprising. Many sites list them or have a link to them, including both of my blogs. The author of this list is "unknown" but it seems to date from antiquity.
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