I was reading an article by Sam Harris and found this part quite interesting:


Comments?

All I ever read about Sam Harris is from religious people attacking him for his criticisms of religion. It's interesting to note that he is not as biased as is indicated.

Thanks for the great thread and article Angeleyes. I am sure there are some atheist that see the advantage of meditation, but atheism is still only a small percentage compaired to most people I meet in daily life....and they don't meditate.

Anyone and everyone can benefit from meditating. It has nothing to do with a belief or disbelief in a God. The great thing about meditation is that each individual can still follow their beliefs or disbeliefs. A meditation free from any expectation of "connecting", "seeking" or "finding" is the most profound one.

Meditation simply means to still ones mind. To rid ones mind of thoughts that are random and often uncontrollable; which when abserved lead to feelings of anger, fear and resentment. All thoughts are by poducts of our past expereinces, which we bring into the present and we re-live these experiences over and over through them.

I hope to see meditation in the future being offered without any beliefs attached to it. Simply for the reason/benefit of quieting the mind.

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May your awareness be perfection

Thank you Angeleyes, well said Viv.

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Only Love Prevails,
Don

"[ .... ] Another common mistake is to imagine that such experiences are necessarily equivalent to states of mind with which many of us are already familiar—the feeling of scientific awe, or ordinary states of aesthetic appreciation, artistic inspiration, etc." -- a grave mistake to make, in my opinion.

To reject something "on principle" (ie. merely because it doesn't fit in with one's own world-view), is as naïve as accepting something unquestioningly, in my opinion.

Thank you for that, angeleyes.


Peace, Love, & Light

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"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

Well, this atheist, for one, has never denied the reality of TM and other "experiences," (although admittedly I am not a practioner). What I do question (not deny) however, is what those experiences in fact actually are. There are those, for example, who claim to be "in touch" with more than just themselves. I don't think I know what that means, but I certainly question the reality of it.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

I wouldn't suggest that you do deny it, E.H.

All it takes to meditate is to sit quietly and relaxed in a chair and allow the mind to still. Practice may well allow you to actually experience the state.


Unfortunately, a meditative state can easily lead to driving hogs to market - if it's kept up too long.


Peace, Love, & Light

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"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

One of the reasons I found the article so interesting was the openess (as Asminov pointed out) that Harris had about the idea of meditation. I'm wondering if perhaps something like TM (or similar experience) will eventually bring the religious and atheist communities together. As Viv said
If nonbelievers could see some of their meditation experiences reflected in the wisdom of religious masters, and believers could begin to give up their dogma in favor of an more spiritual experience........ Who knows? It might just be a starting point.

Pinski - I think I understand what you're saying. And while sitting around waiting for enlightenment could be a waste of time, there may be other benefits, including the increased ability to "know thyself." If "thoughts are things" they may actually be much more important than the physical world/body, which we seem to concern ourselves with most of the time.
And for those whose focus is on a spiritual life, entering such a state may be a very sacred thing. I think the East has always been ahead of the West in terms of spirituality, so perhaps there's something to what they've been doing for centuries.

I agree Angeleyes and who knows when Jesus went into the mountains to "pray", he wasn't meditating? I think many meditate already and don't even know it. The eastern religions have maybe just put a name to it.

We here in the west have maybe not put a side a time to meditate, maybe we did not sit in a certain way, maybe we did not even do it consciously, but true meditation is simple and you don't need to follow any rules. It is simply focusing your attention on one thing. We do this when we are engaged in a hobby, gardening, sewing, cooking and fishing. In the absence of many thoughts, man is much more at peace.

Man tends to think that when he thinks a lot, he could gain something of value. But it is thought itself that brings us away from the peace we seek and are already.

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May your awareness be perfection

First of all, thanks for the quote, which I completely agree with btw. I have read Harris' two most recent books and I tend to respect his approach somewhat more than Dawkins.

Shalom & enjoy the feast,
Vern