It seems that some people will become overly sensitive when having to debate or defend their faith or religious beliefs. It would also seem that these kind of arguments could be deemed as _________-bashing or even developing into the form of persecution or even someone taking this as a personal attack.

But does any deity need anyone defending his Word and His will?

Is this part, purpose and parcel of one’s religion and knowing and teaching GOD to others?

When someone defends GOD is this for GOD’s benefit or the defender’s?

What does one do when GOD does not intervene on a defender’s behalf?

Can GOD provide His own understanding?

Can GOD fight His own battles?

If so, can the term persecution exist and still be applicable?

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

Great questions Cardero,

We are all connected through spirit. If we could be patient enough not to react to outer circumstances we would see things fall into place. Maybe not always as we think they will but always in perfect divine order. Not reacting, but just being a witness has helped me to grow in my faith very much.

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May your awareness be perfection

"But does any deity need anyone defending his Word and His will?" -- no, i don't think so, but if it's one's belief or religion which is being attacked, that is a very different matter, and one is fully entitled to defend it.

"Is this part, purpose and parcel of one’s religion and knowing and teaching GOD to others?" -- i don't think that anyone has the right to try to "teach" about the One to someone else.... this is getting dangerously close to evangelism. However - if one has been specifically asked, then i see no harm in explaining one's beliefs.
One can't "teach" about the One unless one knows the One, and i don't think that's possible under normal circumstances, however - if one genuinely has a vision, it probably ought to be relayed to as many people as possible - free from any hint of compulsion to believe it -- or to believe in it.

"What does one do when GOD does not intervene on a defender’s behalf?" -- i don't think It would intervene, but what intervention are you thinking of - lightning...???

"Can GOD provide His own understanding?" -- we will all reach it eventually, in our own way and time.

"Can GOD fight His own battles?" --one of them certainly could......



Peace, Love, & Light

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"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

All good questions Cardero..

I was thinking that's more an issue of people sharing their understanding of God that sometiems causes conflicts and misunderstandings..

For the believer God needs no "defence". Those who think they are "defending God" place themesleves on some kind of platform with God in a court as a defender or lawyer would do and that's really not possible. It's we who are actually on trial and seek to defend ourselves or justify our actions.

People argue all the time about their beliefs as we know.

- Art

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"it benefits us to be thoughtful, not of the glory of our minds, but rather, above all else, of the glory of God."
- Johannes Kepler

I was thinking more in the way of understanding. I have read and participated in some forum debates where you can actually see the point where faith will abandon the person in which they must then promote themselves as a victim or lash out to attack another’s beliefs.

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

.... yes, playing the "victim" is always a good ploy.... especially when one realises that one is coming second, and needs some support and sympathy.

I apologise for misunderstanding the context of your question.



Maybe this is only a problem for those who think that they (and by extension - their beliefs or faith) are right for everyone, and if someone else calls them into question and actually undermines them -- or, at least - causes them to doubt their faith or beliefs -- then it is an all-too-human attitude to gather sympathy (and thereby imagined support), or to lash out in self-defence.




Peace, Love, & Light

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"An object is perceived, or not perceived, according as the mind is, or is not, tinged with the colour of the object. "
Patanjali - Sutra 4:17

This one I can reply in full confidence, G-d Did not need defending and this is precisely what He Wants us to do... 'Bless' Him as you may or maybe you dislike Him but He Will Make Himself known. This is G-d's Way. Amen.

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God IS ALL. No if's, and's, or but's.

We do what we do for our own purposes, not God's. We say what we say, including me, here and now, because we believe that our personal view is the only truth. Everybody else is wrong. Faith does not abandon us, we simply revert to a way of communicating more expressively which usually moves us away from the subject at hand to a posture of defensiveness and accusations designed to take the pressure and spotlight off ourselves and onto the one whose promoting debate.

Did I say that outloud?
What was the Question? (my futile attempt to shift the attention)

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Only Love Prevails,
Don

You forgot "irrational"; most people who are perfectly willing to poke holes in others beliefs or theories, or point out the glaring inconsistencies and contradicitions in others' religion (or areligion), cannot bring anything close to that awareness or critique to themselves and their beliefs.




Well, I find this a little ludicrous when monotheists adopt this stance. "We must Defend Bible Christianity from these depraved and godless liberals" etc. YHWH, Creatopr of the entire universe, omnipotent, omniopresent, omnisicient, needs the Jerry Falwells of this world, palrty, weakling mortals, to "defend" Him??

It makes me laugh.



I suppose that, since only humans can speak or act for deity, that (supposing that they "know" their religion in the first place (lots of "believers" get nothing out of church but a chance to nap and a bad cup of coffee)) speaking up for what one believes is "defending" it, in the sense of placing it in the public arena. But most people don;t really want their own belief to slug it out with another's belief.... afterall, they might some off worse.

Luther, after all, may have posted his theses for debate, but I do not recall him ever, actually, debating them or winning any debates. He did outline his position at Wurms, but in the end fell back on the "Well, this is what I believe, So there!" position, which doesn;t seem to say much for the persuasiveness of his arguments, really.




I think I said this elsewhere, but I will repeat. People mostly set out their beliefs to bolster their own belief. Fair debate, listening to the other side and allowing yourself to be persuaded, is simply not part if the picture.


What do you expect the gods to do???

Sorry, much like that 19th Century Atheist who used to start every "debate" he participated in by getting out his watch and demanding that YHWH strike him dead in 60 seconds if He exists, this reflects such wrongheadedness that one cannot possibly take it seriously. I bet the atheists got a real kick out of that guy, but I doubt he ever convinced anyone...and should he have been struck dead, I doubt any atheist would have chnaged his/her mind.


Understanding of what??


The idea of any deity battling with humans is pretty silly, don't you think?? Bush declaring war on Iraq because it "threatened" the USA seems positively rational in comparison.


No human, no combination of humans, has the ability to persecute the gods. But humans can, and do, persecute each other with little excuse. In that such behavior represents an offense against the laws of the gods, then those who believe in those gods who made the laws must defend them (the laws, not the gods), because laws are meaningless if they are not enforced.

That humans will and do make many mistakes is certain...in this as in all things.

"Be seing you..."

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Grassaf, Eolas

santa1 wwwdlhow27 santa1

Your good self stated ,,,

We do what we do for our own purposes, not God's. We say what we say, including me, here and now, because we believe that our personal view is the only truth. Everybody else is wrong .

In our state of Faith l can see what you mean by those words .
In a state of reality of knowing as fact that God is real , those words are difficult to assume for me . This is because when a person transitions from "Faith" or "believing" , their 'Faith' turns to 100% 'fact' that God is real so their beliefs turn from 'Faith ' to 'Fact' .

The Almighty God surely must have a reason why Faith is dominant . Perhaps the Truth is too painful for Man , at this time .

Some might say that it is better to just live and enjoy the sensations available to us and not concern or worry or even think of why we are here , where we go , and why we kill and eat our 'furry friends' and why we have hurt and horror etc.

This is because the Hurt and Shock and the amazing acceptance you will have to accept when you reach your goal of knowing and finding God , although Glorius for you that you now know the truth of God's existance , you will also be educated on the rest which is of great shock-horror value that when told you will immediately know why not all can know of the truth of the real God because to know that means you must know the rest ,,
which is of such emotional pain and horror you will be alone with it and you 'will know' and you will know why .
I assume it is easier and better to not try to know everything and just live and be good and caring and believe you have a Creator instead of searching and searching to reach a goal so full of Truth it will change you forever and your life as it was on Earth will never be the same .

But for those who just simply enjoy life and have fun and stay in the 'now' time span and take each day as a gift and not question or search for answers , you will have reached a better goal than those who are searching for the Truth and find it . There is a saying,,

" The Truth Hurts "

santa1