What is Sin?

Lightkeeper · #1 (**permalink**) 29th November 2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Religion tries to save us from the sins we did not commit.

I saw this statement today. Do you agree?

Tonyamendola · #2 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 12:39 AM

I agree

Some lines from ACIM which sum it up for me

T 19 C 3. The Son of God can be mistaken; he can deceive himself; he can even turn the power of his mind against himself. But he CANNOT sin. There is nothing he can do that would REALLY change his reality in any way, nor make him really guilty. That is what sin would do, for such is its purpose. Yet for all the wild insanity inherent in the whole idea of sin, it is IMPOSSIBLE. For the wages of sin IS death, and how can the immortal die?

vivamis123 · #3 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 12:58 AM

To think we did something wrong, is to have it all wrong : )

aged hippy · #4 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 11:05 AM

"Religion tries to save us from the sins we did not commit." -- yes, i agree completely.

Peace, Love, & Light

evangelicalhumanist · #5 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightkeeper

Quote:

Religion tries to save us from the sins we did not commit.

I saw this statement today. Do you agree?

I think that first religion has to invent the sins that otherwise we could not commit, and then try to "save" us from them.

When we do that which harms somebody else, it is reasonable and easy enough to make a law, and to enforce that law. Because we are not god, we don't get to call those "sins," so instead we give them other names, like tort, misdemeanor, felony, murder, theft, and so on.

Sin, in most definitions, is that which does nobody any harm but is supposed to estrange one from god. This makes a couple of unwarranted assumptions:

there is a god
that god has things he doesn't like people doing.

We cannot demonstrate the first, and we have no evidence (except man-made books) for the latter. In fact, the second appears almost always to be the assignment to god of things that some human, somewhere, didn't approve of.

As an atheist, while it is certainly possible that I can do something to harm somebody else, and I should be made to face whatever consequences arise, I cannot sin, from the argument above.

aged hippy · #6 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

I think that first religion has to invent the sins that otherwise we could not commit, and then try to "save" us from them.

.... that's precisely why i agreed so readily - but my post ended up as a tirade against the Lord God, so i chopped four or five paragraphs off.

Peace, Love, & Light

mayura97 · #7 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 01:11 PM

Shalom,

Sin? Everyone makes a mistake right? The word sin in Hebrew doesn't mean grave mistake which can land us into hell but it means simply as 'mistakes'. SO I didn't see why my religion trying to save me from the mistakes I didn't commit... There are mitzvot (commandments) to fulfill and this is to bring us near to G-d.

In Judaism, we do not have the notion of 'you are more righteous than me and I will go to hell because of that!'* No no no, we are always given time and opportunity to fix out mistake and this will eventually lead us to know G-d deeper.

So in refering to the quotation above, I am agree to a point that if there is no religion, I have gone astray. Every religion has their sets of moral beliefs (including spiritual humanism and ethical atheism) and this really saves us from all the mistakes we will make. If there is no one to tell which is right and which is wrong, how do you know it? How do you know that it is wrong to be too darn honest that you hurt your loved ones? How do you know that stealing is wrong if you have been raised as a burglar? Do the the core, who is there to say who is wrong and who is right?

I know that some said that morality is hard-wired, and the core of Judaism is basically this: "Do not do unto others what you won't do unto yourself, this is the whole Torah; the rest is just commentaries. Go and study it," So maybe there is something that we do not know in the way we are raised and religion can be the catalyst for you to realised your mistakes and be an ethical person in the future. I do not dare to comment much about rituals and customs that might be seen as absurb by many.

If I were to agree to the quotation above, I would rephrase it like this:

'Religion tries to save you from sins that you will commit if you do not know it is a sin at the first place."

*Unfortunately, there is a lot of Jews proclaim themselves as more 'frum' (pious) than other Jews. I would say that this violates the spirit of brotherood all together. Who are we to say who is more righteous than others?

P.S. Hope I don't babble too much, if I offend anyone, please let me know. Sorry if I have offended anyone!

Nick_A · #8 (**permalink**) 30th November 2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

I saw this statement today. Do you agree?

Quote:

Religion tries to save us from the sins we did not commit.

I think this was a misprint. It should read: "Liberals try to save us from the sins we did not commit."

Sin pertaining to religion means something different. The Greek word used for sin in the bible means "to miss the mark." Sin then doesn't exist accept in relation to an aim. The religious aim is to awaken. Sin then is what gets in the way of awakening. As Father Sylvan said:

Quote:

...............But what is possible for us now, in the present moment is not what is meant for us -- that is our tragedy, our situation, which was once precisely defined by the word sin, a word which is now empty of meaning. To imagine that what is meant for me now is the same as what is ultimately meant for me is the dangerous illusion of ego, the religious ego which is the most dangerous of all................

It is easy to see how pride and vanity could be considered these two greatest of sins. They reflect the imagination we live in that deny awakening.

vivamis123 · #9 (**permalink**) 6th December 2007, 06:31 PM

Yes, Pinsky I agree and great post. Some do choose the bandaid, rather than to be free from suffering. In any case I don't think it is a conscious choice and everyone is innocent until realized : )

aged hippy · #10 (**permalink**) 6th December 2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick_A

Sin pertaining to religion means something different. The Greek word used for sin in the bible means "to miss the mark." Sin then doesn't exist accept in relation to an aim. The religious aim is to awaken. Sin then is what gets in the way of awakening. As Father Sylvan said:

Quote:

...............But what is possible for us now, in the present moment is not what is meant for us -- that is our tragedy, our situation, which was once precisely defined by the word sin, a word which is now empty of meaning. To imagine that what is meant for me now is the same as what is ultimately meant for me is the dangerous illusion of ego, the religious ego which is the most dangerous of all................

Would you mind giving a reference for that quote from "Father Sylvan" please, NA... i can't seem to find one anywhere....

Peace, Love, & Light

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