Originally Posted by Harvey1
In that case, though, I don't see how God could be said to exist at all. Existence is typically defined as that which exerts some kind of causal efficacy on the world, either directly or indirectly. If we take causal efficacy as communication, then in that sense to not communicate is to not exist.

From a spiritual perspective that is true. God does not exist....God IS.

To exist would imply time and space: existence and none existence. Since God has no end and no beginning/is beyond time and space, God can not be seen as existing.

Pure being does not depend on existence (and all or any signs of existence). That would be like saying I am dead when I am not conscious. With other words, if we are sleeping or meditating, or simply taking no thought are we dead/non existing?

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May your awareness be perfection

---> " In the light of oneness what need would there be to communicate? Do you think God communicates with itself ? ' <-----

I know sign language ,,,watch ---> lol .

Depending on how you look at it . If you look at God as our own beings and we and God are one and perhaps moreso if you believe that you and God share the same body and God feels what you feel because God is you and moreso when you know it then that is one way ,, or you can feel that God is a seperate entity and sort of like over-us looking down at us sort of and or both .




There are two kinds of Touch Healing . There is 'Standard American Holistic Touch Healing' for things such as headache , sore throat , back pain , and general symptoms accepted in a sort of normal realm , and then there is "High Profile Touch Healing" such as Healing a fractured spine, or a coma , or paralysis etc.

They are both Healing yet hold a gigantic difference in classification .


Perhaps God is that way too and God has realms for people to communicate with Him and they come in different classifications yet are all in the same gigantic communication realm God has for each and every one of us .

----> You have reached Spiritual Freedom when you can honestly say ,,,,

" I am ready Lord , take me now "


mooomooo .


ps... and the Lord replies,,


"Not yet buddy , you're not getting off that easy "


,,, "Twenty More Years " !!!


lol

Asking if God communicates with us indicates a couple of things to me. Either God doesn't communicate or we don't understand the communications.

It says in the Bible that God's voice is still and quiet. This would indicate to me that we have to quiet our mind in order to here that voice. It's also an indication that the voice is within us. This also indicates that surrender is a key. Maybe we surrender to the quiet.

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I would agree with everything you have pointed to Lightkeeper with one addition

Th expereince of Love

As long as we believe that God is outside of us we will seek outside of our self. At this point a teacher or guru or book will show up, yet they all point within. Then we start seeking within, through meditation, prayer and observation. But then comes a time that we neither seek within nor without and understand that God is closer than we "think". Closer than our breath. God is our very being.

There is still communication going on but not between God and our divine self, which have become one, but between the individual and the world. This needs not be in physical form such as through a book, conversation, touch or prayer. He that has realized his own divine self as being... pure being is a light to the world. Simply their realization contributes to the good of the whole.

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May your awareness be perfection

I'm hard-pressed to know what that means, Tonyamendola. How is it that you think the "experience of love" means that God is communicating? Those are lovely words, but they are completely abstract. We all experience love, even atheists. Are they lying?

Lightkeeper, I would have to point out that for God to communicate to His creation, but for His creation not to understand the communication, seems to indicate some sort of failing on God's part. I mean, you'd think if anybody knew how to get through in an unambiguous way, to His own creation, it would be God.

And yet, as Darwin pointed out, the "argument [for belief in God] would be a valid one if all men of all races had the same inward conviction of the existence of God; but we know that this is very far from being the case." (Darwin: Autobiography)

That there are so many different views of God throughout history suggests more strongly than anything else that God is man-created. The fact that there are similarities in many, or even most, religions says nothing more than that, at some level, men everywhere share similarities, and I think we can grant that this is the case.

Going even further, the fact that the Abrahamic religions are so similar in so many ways says nothing more than that they share a common source. Men, apes and chimps share common ancestors way back, and we are much more similar to each other than either are to, say, ungulates. But we and ungulates share a common ancestor even further back, the beginning of the mammalian class, and men and ungulates are much more similar to each other than either are to, say, arthropods. And so why, since they all come from the same place and the same peoples, should Judaism, Christianity and Islam (in that order) not resemble each other? Isn't it more likely that it is because they have the same roots, than that they were inspired, at different times and in different fashions, by the same God, who somehow got it so completely different from the spiritual beliefs of the New World, or the polytheistic conceptions of India?

In what sense, then, do we really suppose that God communicates with us?

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

What is God? Well, first I can say (in my opinion) that God is at least who (or that) guides the clouds to give rain, or determines when there are earthquakes or not, and who (or that) possesses a potential or actual causal influence on most natural phenomena (even human activity since we are part of nature). If you consider this as communication, then God definitely communicates to all human beings as somehow integral to the laws of physics. Darwin's comments, as you mentioned in your post, would hardly apply to this understanding of God since this view of God's properties is universal to a humanity.

However, if I consider God further, there are times and places where God's actions go beyond influencing natural phenomena with some intent toward making creation more complex and life-generating, God also provides meaning to conscious life. This means God exerted influence on the creation of families in the animal kingdom, the ability of creatures to express love, the ability to play, the ability to enjoy, the ability to think spiritually and seek meaning.

Again, this depth of God is universal to how all (universally speaking) human beings perceive God. Even if this is all that God was, then God would be a personal being of some sort.

Yet, if I further consider God, I can see within God the nature to bring further meaning to life by bringing religious belief into the mix. Now, this is the polemic for those, such as you EH, who say that God is made up. Surely, as this line of thinking goes, if God were behind religious belief then everyone would have the same religious beliefs.

But, I don't see why this should be the case. Religious beliefs originate with the religious leaders and religious community who inspired them, and there's no reason to think that those religious belief cannot serve as an approximate understanding of God. Afterall, human beings need meaning in their lives, and religion serves that function--especially when times are bad or unfortunate events happen.

That there are tremendous differences in religions around the world should not bother God if God were inspiring people to form meaningful connections with him. If sought after unification is one of God's properties that he shares with creation, then initial differences would actually suit that purpose since to have unification you must first have differences.

So, I think the answer to your question is that God communicates through a process of finding meaning. The particulars of each religion, in the future as it has been in the past, will all exert their own pressures to evolve into a meta-religion in the future. Some religious beliefs might exert 90% of the influence toward unification, and others might exert influence on a particular view. In my view, this is how God communicates.

This is called "nature" or "science" in some circles, and we can explain it all pretty well without recourse to "god(s)." Part of the history of religion in the world has been this discovery that there are understandable causes for many of the things that used to cause us to tremble in superstitious fear and wonder. That understanding has led to a continual removal of god(s) from those processes.
And once again, I would say that this is simply deifying natural evolutionary processes. Is it any wonder, do you think, that most life on this planet generally finds life -- until that horrible moment, anyway -- reasonably comfortable, perhaps even pleasant? It's because it evolved to do so, because otherwise, if it was intolerable, it would not have got on with the business of passing on its genes to a new generation.

What "meaning" does God give to life? This is a statement I hear over and over again, yet nobody ever takes the next step and says, "without God, such-and-such would cease to mean anything." What would cease to have meaning if there were no God? Clouds? No, they'd still be water vapour, with the potential for rain. Love? Nope, my partner and I have no god and we love. Music? Nope again! Everything we know is either nature-made or man-made. The nature-made we were evolved to enjoy (or avoid), and the man-made we enjoy because we made it for that purpose. What does the scissor know of it's "meaning and purpose?" Nothing at all, only the cutler knows. Then, what would the "god-made creature" know of its "meaning and purpose?" Nothing more, since the "cutler" has not deigned to elaborate.
Is it? I would do a little anthropological work and challenge that, if I had the time. But again, I have to point out that all humans, whatever our languages, whatever our skin colour or eye-shape, share a very, very great deal in common, including being the only creatures in the universe that we know of that does actually use language. This, in and of itself, guarantees that all the gods created by humans will share at least some commonality. Further, not every culture has perceived God in any particular "depth." Many have seen their gods as animated devils, wantonly torturing us unless we provide the right sacrifices, the right propiatory acts.
What a strange thing you've said. First, that it is God's "nature to bring further meaning to life by bringing religious belief," and then you say "religious beliefs originate with the religious leaders and religious community who inspired them." Which is it? I don't think it can be both.

Now, when you say that religious beliefs might "serve as an approximate understanding of God," that is tautologically true if God is the creation of religious belief, which I belief to be the case.

And if that is the case, then the meaning in our lives that is provided by religion turns out to have been -- hey, presto! -- provided by none other than ourselves. We've just chosen to label our understanding of what life's meaning is to us with the name "God."
That is not necessarily true at all, and it does a great disservice to the idea of God to suggest that millions should have been horribly tortured and killed, all in the name of getting us all on the same page, after having first shifted us to opposite ends of the book!
And again, my challenge to you: if you believe that the meaning for your life is provided by God, what is that meaning, and how do you come to know it?

I put it to you that you know no more about your purpose, from the perspective of God, than the pet dachshund knows about why it is so long and has such short legs, as deliberately bred by man.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.