What are your thoughts on the "morning after pill"?

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Supporting the ethical nature of a law is not emotionally dictating.


Murder is defined as morally and societally unacceptable, Ruhi. They determined that under certain circumstances, killing another person was to not be tolerated and therefore unlawful.

In this instance, it was based off of fundamental rights, the right to life. That doesn't mean that the right to life precludes all other rights.



Yes, and the ability for a woman to abort a child is protecting HER right to her own body.

You didn't, however, address my question where I asked whether or not you are going to support forced blood donations and bone marrow transplants for those who require them. As they have a right to life.

may peace be on all of you

Ahhh human beings ,such a big mystery ,and look at ur origion , tiny invisible cells fusing invisible to the naked eye in some dark and sticky place ..... where do we start from and look what do we become ,

my views on abortion are the same of any person trying to follow the religion he knows .... sanctity of human life is to be preserved ,
cannot have sex for fun and then try and kill the result
sex after marriage only , and bear the responsibility of the result
no abortion of unwanted children

only abort if medical reason to save the mothers ,or childs life
i have limited medicolegal knowledge on this issue


my regards to every one on this forum

Well, here we get to the meat of the matter. "Any amount of independence" would not define a foetus of 8 or 12 weeks gestation. Remove it from the uterus, and it is categorically doomed to die. It is completely dependent upon the environment provided by the mother's body.

Now, let's talk about "the same rights as any other human." Let's allow, for the sake of argument, a pregnancy caused by the rape of a daughter by her father (such as seems to have occurred in Austria, as we've recently learned). Now, it would seem that you are arguing that this foetus has the right to survive, even though to do so may well be emotionally catastrophic for the mother. And, of course, it is also a fact that bringing this to full term might, possibly, cause the death of the mother. These things do happen.

How much suffering are you willing to allow for this girl -- already a victim -- so that an 8-week foetus, without even the means of conciousness, shall be born?

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

I am always fascinated that people who oppose "abortion of unwanted children" often lable themselves on the side of the "Right to Life." (I do not suggest that spiritual78 does this.)

What I find interesting is that there are so many babies, unwanted but born anyway -- very often at the urging of Right to Lifers, now sitting on the adoption lists, waiting and waiting for that family that will never come.

What's even more interesting is that, in a very great number of cases, once an "unwanted" child is born and it comes time for the mother to make the next choice -- to abandon all responsibility to another family who will adopt the baby -- the mother does not do so, but instead opts to keep the child. This also frequently turns out badly.

It often seems to me that it is not so much the life of this new individual that so interests the anti-abortion types, but only their right to be born. Once that is accomplished, they completely lose interest in this new person, and move on to the next unborn who they will move heaven and earth to protect.

Until they're born, that is.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

I didn't and I did mean to. I honestly don't know how I feel about this, and it is very complex. At first I would say yes, but I feel like it is a very slippery slope, as making abortion is. I am not sure, and I would need time to consider it.

I don't support it, or any other form of contraceptive that results in a fertilized foetus being terminated. I understand that conception can actually sometimes take up to 48 hours to happen, I am not a medical expert by any means, so I will leave that alone, but I think if a fertilized fetus is terminated murder has occoured.

Yes, and if there were any consensus on the humanity of a fetus it would be this simple. But there isn't.


An eight-week fetus is not completely independent, but it is independent to some extent. It is a seperate being with its own bodily functions, if only at a simple level. It is not an organ of the mother, it has seperate DNA. Simply because it is dependent on her for survival does not give her the right to determine it's survival. If a person is on life support, and cannot survive without it, who has the right to decide when the life support it removed?

Emotional catastrophe is regrettable, but not a justification for abortion. If the mother is to die I think it can be treated just like any other case of self defense, and the decision is for the mother and doctor to make. I am willing to allow any amount of suffering. If I had to torture one person to save the life of another, that decision would by no means be simple, but the moral decision is pretty clear. Life is sacrosanct.

I don't feel this way, and for a long time I justified being pro-choice because it prevented unwanted children who would lead awful lives. I don't feel that way anymore. I am however very aware of the tragedy that often follows birth. I don't think prevention of tragedy justifies murder.

My interest does not stop at birth. My interest is to protect people and encourage the government to do the same. There are much more reasonable ways to do this than terminating unwanted pregnancy. Say, providing free government funded contraceptives at all clinics, hospitals, homeless shelters, schools etc.

So you feel that someone has no right to their own body.


The humanity of the fetus is irrelevant. A fetus is a human in that it contains human DNA. It is not a human being in that it is metabolically or respiratorally independent, does not have a working brain and is not sentient.

You said you don't support contraception that destroys a fertilized ovum, so that really offers up another question "what is different about a fertilized ovum from an unfertilized ovum? Both contain human DNA.
What about HeLa culture?

Do as you will.....BUT.....do no harm (to yourself, to others)
Your conscience must be the guide as you must live with yourself for the duration of your time.
May your lives be long and full of wonderful amazement.

You mean it is not a justification for abortion for YOU -- especially as it is not YOU who is suffereing the emotional catastrophe. As we will see a little later, it is always easier to make that sort of choice for another person. We humans have been inventing religious reasons for making others do for us or suffer for us forever, and we're really quite good at it.
Neither the mother, the doctor, nor you is always able to predict the outcome of anything. Women die before, during and after childbirth without anybody having predicted it -- often enough in spite of predictions of everything goind fine.

Granted, most of those who die in such circumstances wanted the child, and we have always known that there is a risk for women in childbirth. But that is not the point. The point is, should someone who does not wish to be pregnant (whether it was by accident from a broken condom, by her own stupid carelessness, or by rape doesn't matter), and does not wish for a baby, be forced to face the same risks as someone who does wish for a baby?

And again, I'll tell you it is always easiest to answer that question for somebody else. Being "right" is a trivial matter when you have no skin in the game.
Well, well, well! Are you by chance working for the Bush government?

I think this deserves a whole thread on its own, and I am therefore going to create one.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.