I recently read some questions from a tormented soul about why God would condemn people to Hell. I was concerned not so much for the questions that this person asked (which are troubling enough from a religious view-point), but from the one that nobody asked in their replies, but which is much more troubling to me. Among other things that the person asked were:
Let us suppose for a moment that the questioner is genuine, that his angst and fear are real. Can we then also suppose that this notion of eternal torment in Hell, this fear, is something that was taught to him when young? I doubt that it is something that any person would dream up all on their own, so I think the answer is “yes.” And what this has done to him is to turn his doubts about the personal God of the Abrahamic religions into a persistent inner dread that this is going to land him in eternal flame!

Now let me ask another question: what would you think of the parent who tells a young child, sternly and in all seriousness (while holding the chef’s knife), “If you touch that again, I’m going to chop off your hands and make you eat them!”

I can see the child bursting into tears of absolute terror as I imagine the scene. As someone who has ACTUALLY SURVIVED that sort of thing, I can tell you that I would consider it wanton cruelty to the child. It would be unconscionable, and I think if that parent were found out, they might in fact be punished by the law for mental cruelty.

So why do so many parents – and their churches – teach children in their millions that God will condemn them to eternal torture for any number of things, including not believing in just the right thing?
Is that not precisely the same sort of cruelty?

I am reminded of a girl of about 9, on a CNN special about Christian fundamentalism, answering the question, “what happens to those who don't believe?" Without any pause, this child replied, "They go to hell." Not a trace of pity, no remorse, nothing but a chilling certainty. Taught by parents and community this fundamental truth of a loving God, she could see absolutely no reason for concern.

So this girl is not tormented by notions of hell, but she knows that her Jewish, Catholic, Muslim friends at school (although where she comes from there probably aren't any!) are condemned to eternal torture. What sort of thing does that do to a young mind?

How many of our great works of art depict this wanton cruelty (I admit to liking Heironymous Bosch's "Garden of Earthly Delights")? What child in western society can't now conjure up a mental picture of hell?

To my way of thinking, the questioner's posts around this matter are genuine, the answer is obvious, and right there before us. Not only is it deeply cruel, it appears to leave lasting scars (or to have left them with this person at least, and others that I can personally name) – scars that can move that torture forward into this life as well as the next.

Why do we not condemn this despicable notion of a punishing god in the strongest possible terms? To a non-religious person like myself, this is completely unfathomable.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

Well EH i can answer this with remembered exerience.

Haveing heard about hell at an early age i didn't pay much attention to it until i reached an age when i grew aware inexplicable 'bad' things happened to people and heard it was god's will.

So "god's will" becomes both the cause and the cure for suffering and sorrow. Yet, even if one were not religiouse the unexplained causes would be enough to drive most to invent a god if they didn't have one already, a kinda big pappy interested in one's welfare.

i suggest that two things drive the hell factor, fear and insecurity, resulting from man comparing himself against the cosmos.

When one has thier own children out of fear for thier eternal survival one teaches about hell and what it means to be disobedient to god.

If, at some point, one finds the whole idea of such a god beyond endurance one rebels and if in that rebellion begins to investigate, and carry it far enough that investigation is freeing.

Heaven and hell have been so deeply taught in tandem that i often wonder about those who choose to believe in heaven and disregard hell...IF, it is only a matter of preferance, the hell part of the equasion hasn't been answered, only shoved to the background and still a part of the psychie.

But yeah, for some, the idea of hell and the cruelty of a god who would condem those he sometimes calls his children to it, is not to be borne.

Hi evangelicalhumanist

----> " So why do so many parents – and their churches – teach children in their millions that God will condemn them to eternal torture for any number of things, including not believing in just the right thing?
Is that not precisely the same sort of cruelty? " <-----

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You are suggesting we are 'teaching' our children this information that if we do a "mortal" sin such as 'Murder" we will go to Hell . However the Religious people who teach this to their children are not 'teaching' them but are 'informing ' them that not God nor Mom and Dad nor the neighbour will make the decisions for you to do the right thing such as do not harm or hurt others as this is what God sends to us in His messages .
God also tells us that God does not send anyone to Hell and only your self can do this but God is saying that the 'Gates to Heaven' are there for anyone just as the 'door to the Pit' of Hell is also available . lt is not up to God to decide your Fate and it is up to you .

If life 'only' continues in the people we leave behind alive then this means something also . When we look at the people who have died , 'everyone ' , we see that the memory of Jesus is quite alive in the millions and millions . We also see Moses and the Disciples as the same . Others such as ones who cared and loved Mankind through their actions are also remembered after they die .

If our life is only a memory to others after we die then some memories are living longer than others . If you did the right things in your life and cared etc and many people felt your love and kindness , they might keep their memories of you alive for months or years and then they fade away and eventually cease to exist just as the Atheist believes that is all there is to life and death ,, life and memories left behind by the ones we affected while alive giving the Atheist a purpose to show their love to people and say what they feel from their ' purity of Intentions" because it is your ' purity of intentions' which will seal your Fate and your life with God , Atheist or not .

God offers many Paths from Atheist to Islam to Jewish etc to get to God and any one will take you there but there is only one route to Hell . It is seen in our behaviour and no one knows what goes on behind closed doors .

mooomooo

What's wrong with God punishing Hitler for the Nazi camps or any number of the evils that have taken place in human history? You might find such thoughts appalling, but I think it would be appalling for Hitler to be given a heavenly bliss considering the deeds of his life.

You deliberately changed the entire meaning of my post, and it does you no credit at all!

The fact is, millions upon millions believe that people are deserving of hell NOT because they did bad things, but because they didn't pledge blind allegiance to one view of god or another. Remember Jerry Falwell's "anybody who is not a born-again Christian is a failure as a human being."

In fact, I was very careful to point out that -- for many Christians in the U.S. especially -- those who live good lives but don't believe that Jesus Christ is their Saviour are doomed to Hell for all eternity, but that many who commit atrocities (like Hitler's) who DO accept Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour will merit Heaven eventually.

Really, if you're going to answer my questions, I'd prefer you to do that, rather than substitute them with questions of your own and answering those!

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

I think that teaching children to believe in Hell is cruel and abusive. For many people, the damage lasts a lifetime.

And, in my opinion, the concept of eternal punishment is hideously insulting to any gods who might actually be out there.

In my Faith God doesn't condemn people to hell.. but people have a choice and can choose a hell on earth or make their own kind of hell. I think some of the hells people make are much more horrific than anything found in literature.

- Art

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"it benefits us to be thoughtful, not of the glory of our minds, but rather, above all else, of the glory of God."
- Johannes Kepler

I say to hell with hell.

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"Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed. Always aim at purifying your thoughts and everything will be well."-- Mahatma Gandhi

My own idea on the develope of the doctrine of hell or eternal punishment probably was developed due to historcal situations.. Religion some centuries ago seems to have used it as a kind of negative reinforcement which probably worked on a lot of people to ensure conformity and behaviour mod also would be useful in instilling fear of condemned ideas or other religions.

- Art

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"it benefits us to be thoughtful, not of the glory of our minds, but rather, above all else, of the glory of God."
- Johannes Kepler

Why do bad things happen to good people and bad people flourish?

These thoughts are trite only because we become bored with them but they also are foundational to the ideas of heaven and hell....that sense of ultimate justice winning out and 2+2 will always be 4. The ultimate being will see to it, and if we follow the prescribed rules which result in living a good life we will be the winners eventualy, rewarded for our troubles.

But, there are fine points put to the rules and the fine points can win hell. Relating to what EH posted....a good christian can live a good life, but if there are slight differences varying from one's own traditional way, that person is seen as a canidiate for hell, and he also sees us as one.

Some of the examples of good and evil used here are extremes, but i was a christian long enough to be familair with the exercise of a precisional judgement of who deserves what. So it's gone from 2+2 equalying 4 to fractions.
The greater the fear and insecurity, the greater the need for justice, the sterner and more exacting the god will be, and less the room for compassion.

By the way, not to pick on just the christians, there is also a Buddhist hell, and a Hindu hell, tho one is not sentenced there by a big boss weighing one's pluses and debits on a scale.