Belief vs Behavior - Page 3

vivamis123 · #21 (**permalink**) 28th June 2008, 02:47 AM

Metis you wrote: "He was by no means "perfect". I too read that Ghandi did not consider himself to be "there" yet, since he still had compassion with those suffering...but I do believe he was "there". His very awareness of being who he is (and accepting it)...is perfect in my eyes.

On the subject: belief vs behavior, I believe they go hand in hand. I think many say they believe such and such but their action don't validate their beliefs. What we truly believe shines through our actions.

**Rev. Kelly** · #22 (**permalink**) 2nd July 2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

In general, I think that one should live according to one's beliefs. That seems simple enough, and it is certainly what one might call living an "authentic" life. If you believe it is wrong to commit adultery, then you should certainly not commit adultery. If you believe that you should make a few minutes every day to pray, then be all means, take the time and do it properly.

However, (there's never an easy answer to anything, is there?) our beliefs cannot be allowed to slop over onto someone else (excepting of course children or those who are not competent to make decisions of their own). The belief that somebody needs to be baptized does not give the believer any right to push that person into the water. The belief that, because a servant girl had baptized the Jewish boy Edgardo Mortara did not give the right to Pope Pius IX to abduct the boy from his family and raise him as a Catholic. This was a criminal act, and no amount of belief, even by an "infallible" Pope, can be excuse not to throw the bum in jail!

I suspect, though, that your question has more to do with notions of salvation than simple ethical behaviour. So speaking to that, I think it important to remember, when Jesus spoke last to Peter, he did not remonstrate with him to believe. He merely said, if you love me, "feed my sheep." (John 21:15-17) That's action.

I realize it has been a while, but I still have classes and they have to take priorty.

Actually my question didn't have an ending point, salvation or otherwise, I just wanted to know what others thought. I agree that no one is infallible, and should face the consequences of their behavior, but should belief, followed in life or not, be subject to those same consequences?

**Rev. Kelly** · #23 (**permalink**) 2nd July 2008, 02:38 AM

Most of us here have expressed the thought that belief and behavior go hand in hand, but sendy had said that we are emotional beings and make decisions based on them rather than belief. What would happen to the world if we ignored our ideals and actually followed what our emotions told us to?

evangelicalhumanist · #24 (**permalink**) 2nd July 2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Kelly

Most of us here have expressed the thought that belief and behavior go hand in hand, but sendy had said that we are emotional beings and make decisions based on them rather than belief. What would happen to the world if we ignored our ideals and actually followed what our emotions told us to?

Complete and utter chaos. With nothing to hold us in check, what's to stop us from taking what we want, from whom we want. This would include, of course, sex (ergo rape). And of course, when I've been hurt by somebody, emotionally I don't want to forgive them (that's an ideal). I want to hurt them back. Following only my emotions, that's exactly what I'll do.

Rational people can act like animals by simply suppressing their rational governors. Animals cannot act like rational people, because they have no rational governors to "turn on."

sendy47 · #25 (**permalink**) 2nd July 2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Complete and utter chaos. With nothing to hold us in check, what's to stop us from taking what we want, from whom we want. This would include, of course, sex (ergo rape). And of course, when I've been hurt by somebody, emotionally I don't want to forgive them (that's an ideal). I want to hurt them back. Following only my emotions, that's exactly what I'll do.

Rational people can act like animals by simply suppressing their rational governors. Animals cannot act like rational people, because they have no rational governors to "turn on."

oh no no....my feathers are fluffed...lol....what does this world have going on....uhhh..maybe a little chaos...do you EH not think your choices in life are based and have continued on a path of having had emotional needs unmet from birth on.....most in bad spots are spending there time filling the voids of emotional shortages.....emotional needs will as near as I can see in the end always win over...that is why the need for finding your inner strength....your knowing in the end there is nothing your emotionally bank rupt of but taught from other well intended folks that with out a certain look a certain home..a certain up bringing..a certain income..a certain stature in the community ...a ranking in the family ...or from being the brunt of others lacking by being a whipping board for others it imo is all from emotionally driven behavior that we respond and continue to respond...knowing ...is all well and good but if just knowing worked then the prisons would be empty and no one would be raping anyone because we know those things are wrong...show me someone who has done wrong and did not know they were doing wrong...(of course there are the few in between with mental conditions)....the emotional needs of a human will find a way to be met.....

metis · #26 (**permalink**) 2nd July 2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivamis123

Metis you wrote: "He was by no means "perfect". I too read that Ghandi did not consider himself to be "there" yet, since he still had compassion with those suffering...but I do believe he was "there". His very awareness of being who he is (and accepting it)...is perfect in my eyes.

Actually it was more his attachment to a free India that he considered might keep him from attaining moksha (release from reincarnation-- somewhat similar to nirvana or heaven). Compassion towards others is not considered a hinderance to moksha within most Hindu schools.

Quote:

On the subject: belief vs behavior, I believe they go hand in hand. I think many say they believe such and such but their action don't validate their beliefs. What we truly believe shines through our actions.

Amen!

Astreja · #27 (**permalink**) 3rd July 2008, 03:50 AM

I think that our behaviour is a good indication of what we actually believe, regardless of what we think we believe.

And I think that behaviour is by far the more important of the two.

sendy47 · #28 (**permalink**) 3rd July 2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astreja

I think that our behaviour is a good indication of what we actually believe, regardless of what we think we believe.

And I think that behaviour is by far the more important of the two.

i agree the behavior is the most important for it tells the story....it shows where the lack or strength appears according to the individual...it often shows what they think they believe ...it is the circular talk once again ...behavior if one thinks there prestige is this or that there behavior they express will be to appear of who they think they are who they are trying to impress...or on the negative side ..one thinks there worth is so low and you see that in there behavior...so when we grow i think from inside out...get some living under ones belt...then stop behaving as we are trying to project who we are or not...and just be....and i think just being does come with time...i am sure there are those who can be much sooner in life......life i think is way simple...and we make it hard...yet if it were so simple why so much study and contemplating the way things work...

...i always end up with...it really is all good...imo......

evangelicalhumanist · #29 (**permalink**) 3rd July 2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astreja

I think that our behaviour is a good indication of what we actually believe, regardless of what we think we believe.

And I think that behaviour is by far the more important of the two.

I think that perhaps this is not quite correct, and the reason I say this is that so often, when we do wrong, we know we are doing it. Our belief systems are quite strong, generally, about what is good behaviour and what isn't. And yet, in the deeply conflicted way that I described earlier, we very often do not do what we deeply know to be right, especially when there are no prying eyes.

That we feel guilty about it later is a strong indicator that we don't always behave the way we believe.

**Rev. Kelly** · #30 (**permalink**) 4th July 2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Complete and utter chaos. With nothing to hold us in check, what's to stop us from taking what we want, from whom we want. This would include, of course, sex (ergo rape). And of course, when I've been hurt by somebody, emotionally I don't want to forgive them (that's an ideal). I want to hurt them back. Following only my emotions, that's exactly what I'll do.

Rational people can act like animals by simply suppressing their rational governors. Animals cannot act like rational people, because they have no rational governors to "turn on."

Are you trying to say that we can all act rationally? That we do not have to honor our emotions? I may have misunderstood here, but I think that we are emotional people. We obey laws, not necessarily out of the logic of why we have laws, but the fear of the consequences. We buy things that are appealing and that we like. We eat things that taste good and make us feel momentarily good. And so on and so forth...doesn't that just show that we are emotional beings.

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