Belief vs Behavior

[Rev. Kelly]

Some people claim that belief in your religion, faith, or God is more important, and some people claim that your behavior is more important. Which is it for you and why?

[sendy47]

at first read...seems this should be easy to answer...but as one answers behavior....then looks at people and there doings...one now backs up and thinks no...it is belief...because often what one believes they are not able to achieve for there enviornment or mental state or being controled by others...so anyway...back to square one..no answer....

[shaw-n]

A person's beliefs will determine their behavior.
Yet actions speak louder than words.
People can talk a great game, yet when it comes down to the crunch can they back up their big talk with the action required.
Often the big talkers turn out to be just big bags of hot air when crisis hits and it is the one's who did not waste everyone's time boasting who actually do the deeds that count.

[evangelicalhumanist]

In general, I think that one should live according to one's beliefs. That seems simple enough, and it is certainly what one might call living an "authentic" life. If you believe it is wrong to commit adultery, then you should certainly not commit adultery. If you believe that you should make a few minutes every day to pray, then be all means, take the time and do it properly.

However, (there's never an easy answer to anything, is there?) our beliefs cannot be allowed to slop over onto someone else (excepting of course children or those who are not competent to make decisions of their own). The belief that somebody needs to be baptized does not give the believer any right to push that person into the water. The belief that, because a servant girl had baptized the Jewish boy Edgardo Mortara did not give the right to Pope Pius IX to abduct the boy from his family and raise him as a Catholic. This was a criminal act, and no amount of belief, even by an "infallible" Pope, can be excuse not to throw the bum in jail!

I suspect, though, that your question has more to do with notions of salvation than simple ethical behaviour. So speaking to that, I think it important to remember, when Jesus spoke last to Peter, he did not remonstrate with him to believe. He merely said, if you love me, "feed my sheep." (John 21:15-17) That's action.

[metis]

I really don't think the two can be separated, so it would be sort of like asking the question whether I'd like to breathe or eat.

[sendy47]

sort of like asking the question whether I'd like to breathe or eat

Are you saying you can not decide?

[metis]

Originally Posted by sendy47

Are you saying you can not decide?

In a sense, I can. In Judaism, emphasis is more on action than belief for a couple of reasons. One is that when it comes to God or the Gods, how much do we actually know about them, and in our tradition, we have long felt that God is pretty much indescribable. Even my non-theistic position within Judaism really doesn't raise many eyebrows. Another reason is that having beliefs is easy, but putting our beliefs into action is much more of a challenge and must be worked at.

But even if we don't know if there is a deity or not, we can still be compassionate and fair, and that's the standard that's mostly pushed in Judaism that I subscribe to.

[sendy47]

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

In general, I think that one should live according to one's beliefs. That seems simple enough, and it is certainly what one might call living an "authentic" life. If you believe it is wrong to commit adultery, then you should certainly not commit adultery. If you believe that you should make a few minutes every day to pray, then be all means, take the time and do it properly.

However, (there's never an easy answer to anything, is there?) our beliefs cannot be allowed to slop over onto someone else (excepting of course children or those who are not competent to make decisions of their own). The belief that somebody needs to be baptized does not give the believer any right to push that person into the water. The belief that, because a servant girl had baptized the Jewish boy Edgardo Mortara did not give the right to Pope Pius IX to abduct the boy from his family and raise him as a Catholic. This was a criminal act, and no amount of belief, even by an "infallible" Pope, can be excuse not to throw the bum in jail!

I suspect, though, that your question has more to do with notions of salvation than simple ethical behaviour. So speaking to that, I think it important to remember, when Jesus spoke last to Peter, he did not remonstrate with him to believe. He merely said, if you love me, "feed my sheep." (John 21:15-17) That's action.

It still matters not I don't think how strong my belief system is....we are emotionally driven....all choices we make I think are in the end emotionally based...there are often those who would commit adultery for example not for one second because they do not understand that it is a wrong ....but there neediness and inability to make a better choice...some of the best well intended right thinking just dont have the strength to sometimes make the right choices.....my belief that one should excercise is not changed by the fact that i dont take action on my belief

[sendy47]

Originally Posted by metis

In a sense, I can. In Judaism, emphasis is more on action than belief for a couple of reasons. One is that when it comes to God or the Gods, how much do we actually know about them, and in our tradition, we have long felt that God is pretty much indescribable. Even my non-theistic position within Judaism really doesn't raise many eyebrows. Another reason is that having beliefs is easy, but putting our beliefs into action is much more of a challenge and must be worked at.

But even if we don't know if there is a deity or not, we can still be compassionate and fair, and that's the standard that's mostly pushed in Judaism that I subscribe to.

I personally pay attention to action, but fully understand that lack of on anothers part does not speak as loud as I once thought...the reason for the lack could be a multitude of reasons...and in my younger years i would have passed judgment as lazy or weak or unknowldgable if one did not live as they seemed to talk...ya know...i like where i am now...for me knowing feeling...it is all good..all needed for growth....

[metis]

Originally Posted by sendy47

I personally pay attention to action, but fully understand that lack of on anothers part does not speak as loud as I once thought...the reason for the lack could be a multitude of reasons...and in my younger years i would have passed judgment as lazy or weak or unknowldgable if one did not live as they seemed to talk...ya know...i like where i am now...for me knowing feeling...it is all good..all needed for growth....

Gandhi's response was, to me, very enlightening on this. He strongly felt that we had to do that which is right, regardless of what others may think or do, and also that we shouldn't be so judgmental of others since we often are guilty or have been guilty of that which we blame others for.