Was Freethought removed from the gene pool? - Page 2

**angeleyes** · #11 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Throughout the course of the last several millenia (the period for which we have recorded history), state religions have systematically tried to remove from the gene pool (often by stoning, burning and other fun methods) skeptics and freethinkers. No doubt they didn't think of it in these terms, but heretics and religious doubters were persecuted and killed with abandon. This has got to have, one would think, some effect on future generations.

Is it possible that this might be at least part of the explanation for the prevalence of religion? Skeptical genes, responsible for lack of belief in the official dogmas, that are weeded out are less likely to be passed on to future generations, while genes that code for credulity are more likely to be passed on and retained in the pool.

Interesting theory, but I don't quite see how it works. For example, I had a traditional Christian upbringing, was agnostic for a time, and then adopted some of the Eastern ideas about spirituality, etc. etc.... Which "belief" would have entered my genes, to affect my offspring?

I'm neither a geneologist nor a historian, but it seems to me that man's killing and persecution of other men has more to do with power than anything else. than religion. Religious groups received their share of cruelty and oppression, as has any group that is not socially acceptable to the "powers that be."

In my opinion, it would be better to ask why humanity has not been able to solve the problem of "us vs. them."

Lightkeeper · #12 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statrei

That cannot be true. People could not feel guilty about killing to eat when they learned how to kill to eat from predators in the wild. Religion arose out of fear of the unknown. Early humans needed to explain the powerful forces of nature. But we need to be big enough to admit that religion was a byproduct of scientific exploration.

In The Power of Myth, Chapter !!!, The first Storytellers, Joseph Campbell discusses this. This sense of guilt led to the first resurrection rituals.

The same type of resurrections stories surfaced around plant eating.

I would say this same guilt is prevalent today and is why some are vegetarians.

evangelicalhumanist · #13 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statrei

What are you disagreeing with? Unnamed fears and hopes are not religious feeling. They are unnamed fears and hopes. The bottom line is that it is freethought that produced religion. This cannot be successfully denied.

I am disagreeing with precisely what you say here. Unnamed fears and hopes are indeed religious feeling -- the sense that there is something there, unknown and unseen, that must be feared or that will respond to our hopes. When you give those things a name, and specify what you must do to allay those fears or encourage a favourable response to hope, then you have turned religious feeling into religion.

And, to be honest, I'm beginning to doubt whether man could have successfully created anything with a purely rational, thinking brain in his head. We need our irrational parts to do the creative work. Religion, unlike science, however, builds upon our irrational moments without due consideration to evidence. That's not "freethought" so much as it is emotional response.

statrei · #14 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 12:46 PM

Then, according to you we are all religious and religion is a natural part of our development as a species. I prefer to see religious feeling as a response to our unnamed fears and hopes but you obviously see it differently.

statrei · #15 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angeleyes

In my opinion, it would be better to ask why humanity has not been able to solve the problem of "us vs. them."

You are absolutely correct. It is a very simple answer. We have not been willing to admit that we, through our ancestors, are the cause of the problem.

Tonyamendola · #16 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 03:50 PM

Us vs Them

Very strange concept as we are all the same

By that I mean if I was to be born as Angel and Angel was to be born as me

Wouldnt we become what we were born into ?

Isnt it our past expereinces that define us ?

Isnt it letting go of those past expereinces that "clear us"

For instance if you forget the past, what is there to fight over ?

We realise we are all the same

**Rev. Kelly** · #17 (**permalink**) 6th July 2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

I don't think you can say that with quite as much certainty as you seem to hold. Humans may have "invented" religion -- if by "religion" we mean the codified practices of religious behaviour -- but I strongly suspect that the earliest creatures that led to man always had those unnamed fears and hopes that we might call "religious feeling."

As I atheist, I too feel those things. When I hope for certain outcomes, perhaps crossing my fingers or muttering "please, please!" under my breath, I am engaging in just such expression. Even though, rationally, I do not believe in magic, gods and such, it is impossible for me to eradicate completely this undergirding of magical thinking.

The difference between me and many of a more religious bent is that I am aware of the cause, and consequently accept -- rationally at least -- that my pleadings are not going to have the effect they are meant to.

If I may offer a thought to this...and I will even without permission. LOL

I think that "magical" thinking is not "magical" at all. When you cross your finger and say "please, please, please" it may offer you a way to open yourself to a new way of doing things, therefore bringing about success. Thinking I can rather than I can't may seem magical, but in reality is nothing more than setting yourself up for success rather than failure. While the pleadings themself may not have any affect on the situation, your desire for something, and your actions leading to the completion of the act do. If you align you actions with what you want, rather than with that you do not want, make all the difference.

Astreja · #18 (**permalink**) 7th July 2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Now THERE is a place I can get to. It's what I tried to express in the thread on non-duality -- that there may well be capabilities, modes of experience and expression locked up inside us that our conscious, rational, thinking minds have difficulty getting to.

I think the place does exist, because I've seen more than a few glimpses of it.

It is somewhat ironic that religions, many of which supposedly act in support of a higher self, frequently create obstacles to people actually finding it for (and in) themselves.

shaw-n · #19 (**permalink**) 9th July 2008, 05:51 AM

The problem with the gene pool is there is no life guards.
Swim at your own risk.

sendy47 · #20 (**permalink**) 9th July 2008, 11:16 PM

...that is to cute...and i think that is what most do....

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode