Answering Questions About God

[evangelicalhumanist]

Many questions about God get asked on this forum, including questions about what God might want, care about, etc.

And I also note that there are many answers given. But what scares me most is those people who really claim to know what it is that God truly wants, and then set out to tell the rest of us.

Yet to me it always seems that faith presupposes that we cannot know. Not now. Not ever. That's why the need for faith. So how is it that anybody, anywhere, can set themselves up as the earthly arbiters of God's will?

There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe me, than in half the creeds.

Alfred Lord Tennyson

[vivamis123]

E.H. Eventhough I agree with Alfred Lord Tennyson quote and see where you are coming from....there is a part of me that spills over. I see that what works for me...might and does work for others.

Just as you in your own way bring change about in this world, by bringen unjustice to our attention (at least that is what I see and get from your posts) so too do most people desire to contribute to the end of suffering in this world.

Instead of seeing a path or way as "wrong" you could see the common "love" in all paths.

[Eolas Pellor]

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Many questions about God get asked on this forum, including questions about what God might want, care about, etc.

And I also note that there are many answers given. But what scares me most is those people who really claim to know what it is that God truly wants, and then set out to tell the rest of us.

Such people scare me too, actually.

While I can accept, and defend, the right of people to work out for themselves what their gods want the necessary corollary of that is that no one should feel free to impose that on others.

That said, however, once a body of beliefs have been established, people who subscribe to that set of beliefs can be held to account. If, for example, you have worked out that god wishes only women to be priests and some people within your group wish to have male priests, then I suppose that the governing body of the believers has some right to expel those who do not toe the line. (IFF there is no other means of compromise. That is to say, excommunication and anathemas must be a last step, not a first step).

I do not suppose, however, that makes either group "right"...both have simply worked out different conclusions about what their deity wants. And that difference may well stand in the way of full understanding and community. It is merely a condition of group dynamics; individuals must be free to choose to belong (or not) to the group and the group must be free to set conditions of membership, or it is no group.

Yet to me it always seems that faith presupposes that we cannot know. Not now. Not ever. That's why the need for faith. So how is it that anybody, anywhere, can set themselves up as the earthly arbiters of God's will?

Well, it depends what one means by "not ever" I suppose. I think I know what you mean, and, for practical purposes that is all the matters -- we cannot know within this lifetime. That's absolutely true.

As for the question "how", I think you really mean "why do they set themselves up", and the answer is obvious. For many people the power to control others has an appeal equal, if not greater, than their desire for sex, or freedom, or security. Power is the ultimate prize; in our world Power is usually control of capital, but it is not the only form of Power (only capitalists think it is).

If, on the other hand, you really mean "how is that other people accept X, Y, or Z's setting themselves up as god's arbiter" the answer is, again, not that obscure. We live in doubt and those who seem sure always attract attention and a following, even when they are obviously wrong. Some people want to be told what to do.

Others think that single-mindedness and apparent certainty (which is usually an act) means that the other has some insight or understanding that they lack.... if god does not speak to us, after all, who are we to say who god does speak to?? (Yes. Obviously, seeing through that issue can lead one to atheism; but lots of theists have confronted this issue and retained belief.)

While I have some understanding and insight into these two sets, I find the third set hard to accept. Those are the people who, possessing no insight of their own, harbouring no unresolved doubt, simply want to use the power that others obtain for their own purposes. They are survivors, who have no problem at all with their survival being obtained from the deception, misery or lives of others. They will support whoever comes to power, for as long as they hold power.

[arthra]

For Baha'is God is Unknowable .. however we also accept that we were created to "know and worship" God. God can only be known also through HIs Manifestations... this means the closest we can approximate what God is like is by turning to His Prophets and Messengers.

- Art

[Rev. Kelly]

EH, you are right, that we can not know what God wants. I try to remember to put IMO somewhere in my posts, because that is all that I have, my opinion. I fully accept that I cannot know God, at least not in this life, and that I can only formulate my own answers on what I have experienced. I can not make others see things the same way I do. If I have ever come off some other way, I appologize.

[Fahad1]

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Many questions about God get asked on this forum, including questions about what God might want, care about, etc.

And I also note that there are many answers given. But what scares me most is those people who really claim to know what it is that God truly wants, and then set out to tell the rest of us.

Yet to me it always seems that faith presupposes that we cannot know. Not now. Not ever. That's why the need for faith. So how is it that anybody, anywhere, can set themselves up as the earthly arbiters of God's will?

faith is actually a firm confidence or trust in something or someone.
faith is not just based on visual evidences but infact is based on your understanding and perception.

In the past when God use to send Prophets and Messengers to guide people, people who had there own beliefs especially on different gods (polytheism)
use to make fun of those Prophets and Messengers and use to call them liers and betrayers because the messege brought by these Prophets and Messengers was alien for them and they considered there belief to be 100% absolute and correct but Qur'an and other divinely revealed scriptures proved them wrong and even the Modern Science today proves that there can only be 1 True Creator who must definitely be Supreme Intelligent and Extraordinary Powerful who must be behind the creation of such a vast and magnificent Universe. Now as far as belief or faith is concerned what these people had confidence or trust on was also there belief,you can believe in anything, you can have belief in mermaids or cartoons but a belief is baseless and useless if you cannot prove it with explicit evidence,reasoning and facts. They believed that rainfall is brought by a perticular god or disaster is brought by another god ,it was a concept prevalent in Greece but it is a fact that a process cannot run perfectly under multiple supervisors or managers.
They even had concept of Evil and Good God and according to there belief all the mischeif or bad thing that took place in the world was because of evil gods .
But they failed to prove the Prophets and Messengers wrong, and even in Qur'an God mentions that such type of people use to make fun of His Prophets and Messengers and those who bluntly rejected the words of God ,they even faced punishment at His hands and Egypt is the biggest example of such evidence where the body of Pharoah is still present.
History testifies to the fact that when he died,where ever his people use to take his dead body for buriel,after when they use to place his body in a grave,the grave use to spit out his body.And God cursed that,neither land nor sky will accept your body.


Now I ask you evengli that why was land spitting out his body ? Now can Modern Science Prove such things?
If you believe that Science is a criterion to judge the facts and fictions, then how can Modern Science explain such phenomena?



To know God what you require is insight into this Universe ,a vision or wisdom that you cannot acquire without having faith?

A faith without understanding and knowledge is blind and knowledge and understanding without faith is useless.

[Eolas Pellor]

Originally Posted by Fahad1

faith is actually a firm confidence or trust in something or someone.
faith is not just based on visual evidences but in fact is based on your understanding and perception.

...that's pretty close.

Faith really refers to two rather different things, and people tend to confuse the two.

Faith can be a belief in an idea, or in a person, as you suggest. This is the more active form of the word; I have had discussions with religious leaders who suggest that it such an active thing, it should be considered a verb. (I'm not sure I agree, just passing that observation on.)

This sort of faith can, of course, be misplaced; the persons may not be trustworthy as one thinks, or the ideas may be false. Lot's of people spend all their time worrying about misplaced faith, ignoring the fact that most faith is not misplaced.....

The second meaning of faith is a body of ideas, that has been worked out (often over centuries) in which people place their trust. This is the type of faith that people mean when they say things like "This is the faith of our fathers," of "This is the faith of Abraham." (Those statements are, BTW, inherently false: as the body of ideas is plastic, liable to both differences in accentuation and emphasis that vary over time, one's faith today is not the faith of a generation or two ago. (If you doubt me, ask an older Roman Catholic layperson if they think their religion today is the same faith as it was pre-Vatican II!))

Christians, in particular, switch between these meanings with great frequency, and without much thought

[Tonyamendola]

Well when you have a direct expereince of God and people ask questions you tend to answer them

I dont mean knowing God via text etc
I mean "Face to Face"


If someone told you they knew God and then wanted you to follow them, admire them, worship them or pay them then i would worry
Not about them but about the "truth they speak"


Its all good news - In truth

[Schizophretard]

Originally Posted by evangelicalhumanist

Many questions about God get asked on this forum, including questions about what God might want, care about, etc.

And I also note that there are many answers given. But what scares me most is those people who really claim to know what it is that God truly wants, and then set out to tell the rest of us.

Yet to me it always seems that faith presupposes that we cannot know. Not now. Not ever. That's why the need for faith. So how is it that anybody, anywhere, can set themselves up as the earthly arbiters of God's will?

It's probably because they don't understand that the only thing we know is our own existence and everything else we think we know is all faith.