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| Religious Debate Debate religions and religious topics. |
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Vive La France
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Vive La France! France is the country that brought enlightenment ideas and democracy to Europe in the age of Absolute Monarchs. They have shown leadership again despite the insulting comments coming from so many Americans because France opposed the illegal Iraq War. And guess what? Jacques Chirac was right. There were no WMDs, no Iraqi-Al Qaeda connection, and Iraq did not commit 9-11. He and Gerhardt Schroeder knew Bush was a mentally deranged moron alcoholic but Tony Blair was fooled by an inarticulate idiot. Amergin
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Militant Agnostic: I don't know, and neither do you. There is no evidence of God so belief is optional. |
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Merci, merci! Especially poignant when one considers that it's Bastille Day next Monday.
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Interesting shaw-n..
Do you have any sources for the story? I hadn't heard much about it. - Art ![]()
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"it benefits us to be thoughtful, not of the glory of our minds, but rather, above all else, of the glory of God." - Johannes Kepler |
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Source
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This links to the story. Or, for those who do not like following links: France rejects veiled Muslim wife A French court has denied citizenship to a Muslim woman from Morocco, ruling that her practice of "radical" Islam is not compatible with French values. The 32-year-old woman, known as Faiza M, has lived in France since 2000 with her husband - a French national - and their three French-born children. Social services reports said the burqa-wearing Faiza M lived in "total submission to her male relatives". Faiza M said she has never challenged the fundamental values of France. Her initial application for French citizenship was rejected in 2005 on the grounds of "insufficient assimilation" into France. She appealed, and late last month the Conseil d'Etat, France's highest administrative body which also acts as a high court, upheld the decision to deny her citizenship. Story from BBC NEWS: Published: 2008/07/12 19:34:01 GMT © BBC MMVIII
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Grassaf, Eolas |
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A huge part of the difficulty, of course, is in trying to disentangle the notions of subservience to her husband and obedience to a religious belief.
It is not entirely unlikely that the woman, when asked "are you doing this willingly?" would answer, "yes." But can we ever sort out whether she's answering "yes" because she means it, or she's afraid her husband will kill her for the sake of his "honour" if she answers otherwise? The fundamental ideas that make living in a pluralistic society possible do not coexist easily with fundamentalist religious (or other dogmatic) beliefs.
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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism. |
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Another thing to consider if the woman in question would answer yes would be the training (domestication process) which she received from childhood on where such values would be reinforced at every step of the way by all the others she was exposed to.
Such peer pressure is very difficult to deal with and children do not know that such values are inappropriate. They accept the authority imposed on them (which is by force) and are thusly psychologically molded for life. "train a child in the way they are to go and when they are old they will not depart from it". So can you "teach an old dog a new trick"??????? |
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Am i the only one who sees this woman being made a further victim by the policies dictated by a government?
If she complies she may be doing so against the dictates of HER conscience, and face possible physical and certain pshycological abuse by both her family and her community, everyone she knows intimatly. Her children may be removed from her influence, in affect leaving her a marginal person. If she doesn't comply it does leave her open to exportation, seperation from her children as they and her husband ( i presume) are French citizens. Back in her own islamic country she will also be a marginal person without husband or children. Once again, the men who dictate female place and behavior in her society are not directly affected, or answerable. IMO, this solves nothing. It's a turniquet on a finger, and when the finger drops off they can feel good about healing the hand. i don't know what the answer is, i only know what it's not, and this isn't it. |
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the French should not cave in and pander to religious pressure.
A hard choice, yes, but you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. I can sympathize for the woman plight, but to give in would set precedent which would make many more suffer. You must weigh it all out, not just the immediate, but the rest waiting in line as well. It is the price we pay for our religious superstitions. Hopefully someday soon we will wake up enough to realize that such things are not necessary. |
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