Western beliefs vs. Eastern

[vivamis123]

Is the belief in a law of attraction the western take on the belief in Karma? Or is there a difference?

[metis]

Originally Posted by vivamis123

Is the belief in a law of attraction the western take on the belief in Karma? Or is there a difference?

I'm sure that the teachings on karma and reincarnation attract quite a few westerners, but hopefully they would also realize that the belief in karma is not a requirement with Hindus and Buddhists, and there's many differing takes on what karma may or may not be, much the same as Jews, Christians, and Muslems often have differing takes on the concepts of heaven and hell.

If one looks at the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path, which are the most basic teachings found in Buddhism, karma is not even mentioned.

[vivamis123]

Yes, Metis, I agree. Sri Nisargatta Maharaja does not teach it either. I believe that Karma....(or the belief in Karma) can be "overcome" simply by being "present".

So, where does the belief in Karma stem from and can it be compaired to the belief in a law of attraction?

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by vivamis123

Is the belief in a law of attraction the western take on the belief in Karma? Or is there a difference?

In a sense yes. Our being attracts our life and our being is comprised largely of karmic influences. Thoughts can sometimes juggle this around but the karmic results of the inclusion of the corrupted ego into our thoughts are often even worse for the objectivity and potential of our being.

[Lightkeeper]

Eckhart Tolle says that when we are completely present in the moment, Presence or the Universe sends us what we need. He doesn't believe in Karma or reincarnation. I don't see a connection between Karma and the Universe supplying you what you need if you are present.

Karma seems to be an egoic belief.

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

Eckhart Tolle says that when we are completely present in the moment, Presence or the Universe sends us what we need. He doesn't believe in Karma or reincarnation. I don't see a connection between Karma and the Universe supplying you what you need if you are present.

Karma seems to be an egoic belief.

Karmic results do exist as I understand it. The whole purpose of the Crucifixion and Resurrection was to clear collective karmic results by restoring the balance of energies in the world allowing Man to become conscious.

"Absolute unmixed attention is prayer. " Simone Weil

Only a very small minority are capable of presence which is why people are largely incapable of prayer in the Christian (not Christendom) sense. This quality of prayer from presence enables us to get out of our own way so the reality of our being can be helped since its needs or what it is asking for at such a depth of attention is beyond the wants and even the comprehension of the dominance of our corrupt ego.

[Lightkeeper]

Presence is eternal (no time) and nonjudgemental. Karma would be egoic in that it has a time factor in it. It is a thought form and judgemental. There is no need for karma in Presence. There is no judgement in Presence. Since Presence is always there, there would be no need to leave or return.

Karmic results do exist as I understand it. The whole purpose of the Crucifixion and Resurrection was to clear collective karmic results by restoring the balance of energies in the world allowing Man to become conscious.

This would be an inner process, most likely ego surrendering to allow Consciousness or Presence to enter the void.

Only a very small minority are capable of presence which is why people are largely incapable of prayer in the Christian (not Christendom) sense. This quality of prayer from presence enables us to get out of our own way so the reality of our being can be helped since its needs or what it is asking for at such a depth of attention is beyond the wants and even the comprehension of the dominance of our corrupt ego.

If we are Present we know there is no need to fix. Acceptance and surrender to allow space for Presence or Consciousness in ourselves is our responsibility. Continually whining about the world out there or your own state is a block and keeps you in the cave. The key is to surrender to your immediate circumstances and take appropriate action. It appears that you keep using excuses to keep yourself in the same place.

[earlmcgee]

From what I've read of various Buddhist teachers, (most fairly contemporary as opposed to direct reading of the sutras), the Buddhist view is that karma, which can be either "positive" or "negative" karma (karma vikapa the Sanskrit term translating as simply action-consequence or result) will be borne out until the "seed" has run to fruition. Their typical explanation is that essentially it is karma which leads to human birth so guess karma got us here, no matter how "enlightened" we were to start with and karma will have its effects even on those who become enlightened in this lifetime, though albeit suffering may not occur since it takes a "self" to experience suffering. Perhaps a variation on that expression pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. earl

[Nick_A]

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

Presence is eternal (no time) and nonjudgemental. Karma would be egoic in that it has a time factor in it. It is a thought form and judgemental. There is no need for karma in Presence. There is no judgement in Presence. Since Presence is always there, there would be no need to leave or return.


This would be an inner process, most likely ego surrendering to allow Consciousness or Presence to enter the void.



If we are Present we know there is no need to fix. Acceptance and surrender to allow space for Presence or Consciousness in ourselves is our responsibility. Continually whining about the world out there or your own state is a block and keeps you in the cave. The key is to surrender to your immediate circumstances and take appropriate action. It appears that you keep using excuses to keep yourself in the same place.

If karma doesn't exist, you've successfully nullified Karma Yoga:

Karma Yoga

I'm a traditionalist so I believe in the reality of Karma Yoga.

Presence is a quality of NOW but NOW is a relative measure of quality. Now is what connects the above with the below. The process of existence is sustained through levels of the relative quality of NOW. This connection is of different qualities determined by the quality of being of above and below this quality is connecting.

Presence for us is relative since it is the conscious connection between the above and below within which we are the middle and it is always the middle within the Trinitarian view of universal structure that is evolving since everything is a "middle.".. Presence itself is what evolves. To deny this is to deny conscious evolution and the purpose of the great conscious traditions such as Christianity

[Lightkeeper]

You need to go on Dancing With The Stars, Nick. I don't think I have ever seen anyone dance around like you do.

The Now is Now. It's not tomorrow or yesterday. It is a bridge or a step. I don't believe in Karma. There is no need for it in Presence. It is an egoic thing, the constant death and rebirth of ego, the constant reincarnation of ego.
The eternal Presence in us has no need to be reborn, it is eternal. Karma is a concentration on form. Presence is not form.

You talk about concious traditions of Christianity. Which tradition? The one that tells you you are going to hell, the one that says God is outside of us in Heaven?

Maybe it's time to stop thinking of religions as traditions and things that happened in the past and start thinking about them as pointers to Presence within us.

You stated that most people can be present. One conscious breath is a meditation. is presence. It is your choice whether or not to be present.