Transcendence

[Lightkeeper]

I have been wondering if transforming can be a substitute word for transcending.

In order to transcend thought, energy has changed. Let's say we are able to have no thought at a given moment. At that point energy takes on a new form.

[vivamis123]

At no thought...where is energy? What does energy "do" on it's own? Through what force was energy created...through what force is it moved? Transcendence to me is to move beyond energy.

[Eolas Pellor]

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

I have been wondering if transforming can be a substitute word for transcending.

In order to transcend thought, energy has changed. Let's say we are able to have no thought at a given moment. At that point energy takes on a new form.

Is "no thought" the same as "transcending thought". I'm not sure the two are the same at all, at least in the common senses of the words.

I think that you are straining the meaning of the words.

[Amergin]

Transcending means moving across something just as ascending means moving up and descending means moving down. I think many religious people use transcending to mean moving across some hypothetical line from the matter and energy universe of space and time across into Non-Universe or what ever is not of the Universe.

For me, transcendence is a term for something traversing out of the Universe of matter and energy into some other reality. That reality is hypothetical and cannot be proven.

Transcendence can also mean crossing the street in Glasgow.

Amergin

[Lightkeeper]

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

Is "no thought" the same as "transcending thought". I'm not sure the two are the same at all, at least in the common senses of the words.

I think that you are straining the meaning of the words.

When a flower transforms from a bud to a flower, has the flower transcended its original form.

Enlightened people talk about transcending thought. Thought is a form. They also say that God becomes aware of God through form and God becomes aware of God when we become aware of God.

[Eolas Pellor]

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

When a flower transforms from a bud to a flower, has the flower transcended its original form.

I wouldn't say so. The bud is the bud; the flower is the flower. The bud transitions into the flower, but the flower must contain the essence of the bud; similarly the bud always contains the germ of the flower. The one is linked to the other; the past is linked to the present and the present linked to the past.

The caterpillar has the potential to be a butterfly, but the butterfly cannot deny it began as a creeping thing.

What you will oneday be cannot be totally separate from what you, now, are; nor can you be without the seed of what you will be.

[angeleyes]

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

What you will oneday be cannot be totally separate from what you, now, are; nor can you be without the seed of what you will be.

I think that's a good point, EP. We may have an experience of transcending (thought), but in many ways, we're simply letting go of what is NOT us.

I looked at several definitions of the word and they were all very similar. Here's the definition of transcend from the Free Dictionary:

1. To pass beyond the limits of: emotions that transcend understanding.
2. To be greater than, as in intensity or power; surpass: love that transcends infatuation. See Synonyms at excel.
3. To exist above and independent of (material experience or the universe): "One never can see the thing in itself, because the mind does not transcend phenomena" Hilaire Belloc.
v.intr.
To be transcendent; excel.

So it does seem to mean something like "go beyond" or "go past" and the like.

To address LK's original question, I would say that when one transcends something, it implies moving towards something greater or better. The idea of transformation has the same meaning when it comes to spiritual/inner life, although it could also simply mean "changing form" and that could be both positive or negative. But the way they're used most often, I think they're interchangeable.

[Lightkeeper]

Originally Posted by vivamis123

At no thought...where is energy? What does energy "do" on it's own? Through what force was energy created...through what force is it moved? Transcendence to me is to move beyond energy.

Are you saying you want to move beyond God?

[vivamis123]

I don't believe in a God that is subject to belief. God is beyond thought or anything we could perceive.

[Lightkeeper]

Is using the word God a thought?