LK


If you saw me dance you would feel sorry for the stars.


Father sylvan wrote that as the great traditions begin to devolve into secularism, the first conception lost is that of relativity and scale. Time for us as in the conception of NOW becomes a concept within a linear conception. Actually objective time, or the repetition of a moment, is a vertical expression that appears to us, limited to a three dimensional conception, as linear.

Buddhism understands karma as well as Hinduism. What makes you so sure that because their traditions are old fashioned, they must be wrong?

Basic Buddhism: The Theory of Karma


It is ironic that existence is in NOW yet we cannot experience it. We are always in the future or the past.

The eternal presence or the Absolute IS so naturally has no need to evolve. However we are not the eternal presence but actually contain the seed of conscious evolution within creation. Whether the seed grows or not is a matter of circumstances.


I am referring to Christianity which is the means towards conscious re-birth. What we know and experience in society is facets of Christendom. There you can create your own truth.


IMO this is the fantasy of New Age theory. In reality the essential great traditions reveal we are not present but live in dreams.


This is one of the unfortunate revelations that attempts at self knowlege reveal. We have no choice. We make attempts at presence and see that we cannot sustain it. It is the human condition.. We are in opposition to ourselves. A person then has the choice to BS about it or make attempts at presence so as to develop the necessary detachment and conscious attention to sustain presence.

If people were present, everything would be different. There would be no wars. But since we are not, BS compensates for the lack of conscious presence and the life cycles including war and peace continue mechanically as described in Ecclesiastes 3 regardless of platitudes.

This is probably the key to where you are stuck. God or Presence within us is not New Age. You keep circling around like a puppy chasing it's tail.

Your message is so dark that it's obvious that you are still in the cave. I am going to second what EH requested the other day. Please no further attempts to drag us down to where you are. You won't allow anyone to help you out of the cave. It's your choice to stay there, but we don't want to hear about it anymore.

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From my understanding, karma is a spiritual concept, not an egoic one. Karma accumulates over many incarnations and in Western terms, represents the acquired wisdom. This wisdom helps one choose their next incarnation, and when one has gained the sufficient amount of wisdom, then the cycle of birth and rebirth is broken.

It is not, therefore, attributing every good or bad fortune to its whims. That is an ego idea of karma, being punished or rewarded without sufficient cause or reason. The actual spiritual idea is present in the West in Platonic philosophy.

In the "Myth of Ur", Plato relates his ideas about reincarnation. Among them, he relates how the amount of acquired wisdom hepls the soul choose its next incarnation, which is also influenced by their glimpse of heaven. People who have lead poor lives are often so distraught, they chose extremes of poverty if they had previously endeavored in wealth; slavery if they had been cruel to others, and so forth. The ones who choose wisely, according to Plato, are those who choose the "golden mean", not to poor so as to not have access to increase one's wisdom, not to wealthy so as to grow enamored with the material world.

Anyway, karma represents a spiritual balance, not a penance/reward system for a particular incarnation.

-TC

To me Karma and Reincarnation concepts are attempts to hang on to form. I'm thnking way outside the box.

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LK...i think that is a real posibility of what might be..no form..this all being a dream...but for understanding of the here and now..even if it is a dream ..illusion what ever it is ...would we not still.. to try to understand day to day being in this world...have to discuss with knowledge of the world and the language to express the different meanings of karma and such...because knowing what seems to be ...would really almost leave us needing no words or sharing and just being..and i think more and more of that can be done...but we are not there to give up language at this early stage...and then it still could yet be something totally different...it seems there is a transition taking place.....what da ya think...

I don't understand your post. I'm talking about not having the need to think we are going to live again. It's ego that reincarnates probably n a daily basis. The eternal has no need to, because it doesn't die. I don't believe in physical reiincarnation and the concept of Karma.

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Sendy, I can follow your thoughts but also L.K.'s. Both of you are right and where I am. On the one hand Karma does not exist...on the other hand the belief in Karma is still in consciousness.

I think we can live a life knowing karma does not exist (take no thought for it) yet recognize when Karma is brought to our consciousness that it is simply a belief and has absoluty no power over us. This awareness eliminates all effects, for us and others.

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May your awareness be perfection

I have no idea what happens after death of the body. I have a tendency to look at all scriptural concepts as inner journeys rather than something that will happen outside of us.

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I think karma is another word for somethings that many spiritual paths speak of. Many have different names for God. They are all speaking of the same thing. I think Karma is another way of saying...the seed you sew brings forth the planted you planted...what you put out you receive back...our thoughts create our life....what goes around comes around...Know what I mean? If you focus on negative and put out negative you are going to create a negative enviroment...I won't even go into my thoughts about reincarnation because that would take a long time....

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oops...meant to say thanks for your post vivian..i have a hunch you are understanding me a bit...