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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 28th August 2008, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metis
Is it necessary to believe in a deity or deities? Is it necessary to believe there is/are no deity or deities? IOW, is it necessary to believe one way or another when it comes to that which we have so little to go on? Is there anything wrong with saying "I don't know"?


I don't think it's "necessary" one way or the other...
& there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know"...

for that matter, I don't know what "IOW" means...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 28th August 2008, 03:04 PM
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Judaism

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Originally Posted by Ceetee
for that matter, I don't know what "IOW" means...

In Other Words...
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metis
Is it necessary to believe in a deity or deities? Is it necessary to believe there is/are no deity or deities? IOW, is it necessary to believe one way or another when it comes to that which we have so little to go on? Is there anything wrong with saying "I don't know"?

Not at all. In fact, in our tradition, our understanding of deities is that they are simply our own concepts that we manifest so that we can appreciate what we perceive to be attributes of that which is attributeless. We believe everything is God (The word "God" is NOT a Hindu term, but it's the only term able to present something close to the concept without using Sanskrit). The very universe is a manifestation of God. It is none other than God. It is our understanding that "God" is both the material and efficient cause of everything.

If that is so, then God can be invoked from any name or form in existence (or imagination for that matter). A deity is, to us, simply a name and form that allows us to perceive and comprehend aspects of that which otherwise is formless and nameless and could not be comprehended or perceived by the mind or senses. The invoking of a deity allows us a method to worship in such a way as to put our minds in a receptive state that can allow us to receive the grace of knowledge, understanding and realization of that which we are.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2008, 02:46 PM
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Judaism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaitanyananda
Not at all. In fact, in our tradition, our understanding of deities is that they are simply our own concepts that we manifest so that we can appreciate what we perceive to be attributes of that which is attributeless. We believe everything is God (The word "God" is NOT a Hindu term, but it's the only term able to present something close to the concept without using Sanskrit). The very universe is a manifestation of God. It is none other than God. It is our understanding that "God" is both the material and efficient cause of everything.

If that is so, then God can be invoked from any name or form in existence (or imagination for that matter). A deity is, to us, simply a name and form that allows us to perceive and comprehend aspects of that which otherwise is formless and nameless and could not be comprehended or perceived by the mind or senses. The invoking of a deity allows us a method to worship in such a way as to put our minds in a receptive state that can allow us to receive the grace of knowledge, understanding and realization of that which we are.

First of all, nice post imo.

I noticed that you are Hindu and I'm really quite familiar with varying theologies associated with Hinduism, including the fact that some schools teach a non-theistic (no belief in a creator-god) appraoch. And, as a matter of fact, I'm arranging joint visitations between my synagogue and a nearby Hindu temple hopefully sometime this winter.

A very close friend of mine spent an entire summer back around 35 years ago in India studying Gandhi's effect on Hinduism. After the movie "Gandhi" came out, he made numerous presentations at various church communities and, since I had a background teaching comparative religions, I helped him out.

I have visited a couple of Hindu temples for services at the invite of some of my students, and I very much cherished my experiences there. And let me just add that my "theological" approach is pretty much compatible with Buddhist dharma, which is non-theistic as you're probably aware of, but my "default" position tends to be much more pantheistic, which is pretty much where most schools of Hinduism are coming from.

Namaste.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 29th August 2008, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metis
First of all, nice post imo.

I noticed that you are Hindu and I'm really quite familiar with varying theologies associated with Hinduism, including the fact that some schools teach a non-theistic (no belief in a creator-god) appraoch. And, as a matter of fact, I'm arranging joint visitations between my synagogue and a nearby Hindu temple hopefully sometime this winter.

A very close friend of mine spent an entire summer back around 35 years ago in India studying Gandhi's effect on Hinduism. After the movie "Gandhi" came out, he made numerous presentations at various church communities and, since I had a background teaching comparative religions, I helped him out.

I have visited a couple of Hindu temples for services at the invite of some of my students, and I very much cherished my experiences there. And let me just add that my "theological" approach is pretty much compatible with Buddhist dharma, which is non-theistic as you're probably aware of, but my "default" position tends to be much more pantheistic, which is pretty much where most schools of Hinduism are coming from.

Namaste.

Thank you.

I think it would be very interesting to hear about your plans for the joint visitations. I am always encouraged when I hear things like that.

The school I am involved with is traditional Advaita Vedanta, inline with the teachings of Adi Sankara. Our Swamiji teaches that there are not many Gods, and there is not one God, but rather there is only God.

he was also integral to the recent Jewish-Hindu summit held in Israel earlier this year, where many advances were made in the mutual understanding of the two religions. Some of the things that came out of that summit were truly inspiring. This is part of a standing committee that was formed by Swami Dayananda Saraswati and Rabbi David Rosen last year.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 30th August 2008, 01:34 PM
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tariki...no...I love it, today you have made it much clearer, or might i be in a clearer thinking state...lol...i love to hear people be ...what comes out comes out....that is the reality of one i think..and we live in a world with labels...we did not speak correct or hurt someone or get looked at like we are from another planet etc...and i am not certain to the lines and we as individuals must find them to exist in a human space....i think the suffering you speak of for higher wisdom and such is very true...the most knowledge and depth of understanding mostly comes from the harder lessons...but what i am gathering as of late is...there are many who have gone before us and have learned yet more things that are i think trying to share...the suffering for the peace is not necessary...you really can travel a lighter path and find the joy, peace, love, God what ever ones title is...just being for some...

sendy, yes, I was specifically answering the original question, posed as "why believe?" I just dredged into my own life and experience, where I have often looked back and recognised it was the times of "suffering" where I learnt the most....or at least, THINK it was there that I learnt! I certainly would not disagree that we can learn from anything, from moments of shared joy, fellowship, the sacrifce of another for our own sake, maybe even the good fortune of a lottery win! But fundamentally I am forced to recognise that any genuine "learning" seems beyond my own calculation........this is where the words "grace" and "gift" seem appropriate, or from my own "Pure Land" perspective, the working of "Other Power".

While reading your post the words of the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart popped into my wandering mind, for better or for worse, appropriately or not....."They can truly enjoy the feast who would just as willingly fast"

Work out your own connections!!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 2nd September 2008, 03:54 PM
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Judaism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaitanyananda
I think it would be very interesting to hear about your plans for the joint visitations. I am always encouraged when I hear things like that.

At this point we're still in the discussion stage. I mentioned it a while back to our rabbi and he's all for it and, as a matter of fact, spend quite some time in the Hindu community in India several years ago.

I'll keep you posted. Nothing is in stone yet and I'm hoping we don't run into time problem with our calender whereas we may not be able to squeeze it in. I should know more sometime by early October.
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