Interviews and Experiments

[reasonlogicfaith]

Hi, I'm Aaron. I'm 20 years old and I've been raised in a christian family. In my life several things have happened that I point to and say to myself "that's God". But as the years have gone by, I've come to realise that pretty much everything that's happened to me, my family and friends can be explained with a very basic knowledge of science and statistics. What's more, some issues with Christianity have started to get to me. I list the main ones a little further down. I'm sick of not knowing the answers, so I'm off to find them.

Next week I'm planning to cycle around the country I currently live in, New Zealand, over about 3 months. While I'm travelling I plan to stop at each town and ask the opinion of the local christian presence on various questions, for the purpose of gathering some statistics of general New Zealand public opinion on the topics I ask about, and also to find some answers for myself. I will film the interviews and put them up on youtube. I've bookmarked this site, and I'll come back and link you to them at the end of the year when I'm done. So far the questions I will ask are:

1. Why won't God heal amputees?
2. What is your position on homosexual marriage and adoption? (which will be a pre-text to asking what they say to the statistics that homosexual marriages are more successful on average than straight marriages in America).
3. What is your position on evolution vs creation?
4. Why are christians against profanity despite no mention in the bible against it? I'll make it clear that I'm referring to saying "naughty words" like f**k and s**t which society made up as opposed to taking God's name in vain, which is covered and explained in the Bible.

I'm not just asking questions. I also plan to test (semi-scientifically) what, in my opinion, is the strongest christian argument. Which is that when you give everything to God and you ask him for what you seek, he will respond.
To test this, I'm going to pray and read my bible every morning for a minimum of 30 minutes. I will pray for evidence of his existence, and also that I may film it. Every day I will film myself for one minute after my prayer and Bible reading session and give a summary of what I felt happened. And maybe even, some real evidence.

In each town I will ask around and look for evidence of 'God's work' in the community. There are some churches in NZ that are famous for regular miraculous healings. I'm going to try and track down some people who have previously been healed, and also film several church services. Hopefully I'll be able to see a miracle and get all the information I can on the person to whom the miracle happened, the person who performed the miracle, and the circumstances surrounding the miracle itself.

I would greatly appreciate any input at all on this entire plan. I'd really like to hear any extra questions others would like me to ask, critique on the questions I already have, and critique on the structure and plan of my experiment in general.

[Wendy Tall One]

Why not ask other denominations? Christians aren't the only sect to believe in god. It might also be interesting to know what the Maori have to say about it.

[Lightkeeper]

Welcome to the forum reasonlogicfaith. Your pilgrimage sounds wonderful and I am sure you will have many adventures. When you return I would like to have you do an interview in our Interview Zone.

I agree with Wendy about asking other religions and the Maori your questions.

If you have faith why ask for evidence that God exists?

[reasonlogicfaith]

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

If you have faith why ask for evidence that God exists?

All I have is a strong feeling that God exists. But that could so easily just have come from my upbringing. And realizing that many of the events I based my faith on could be explained with my own pretty basic knowledge of science and statistics really got to me. I don't expect God to appear in a flaming bush and tell me to free the Israelite slaves and that my brother Moses will speak for me. I would just like God to make it clear to me via some method or another that he exists. If that method is non-tangible then I want to film my reaction to it when it happens for further analysis. And if it is tangible, I would of course try to film it.
If he doesn't provide that during this experiment, I'll continue searching for a while longer. But if after a while I find nothing, I'd really like to stop wasting my time worshipping a pretty flawed concept.

[reasonlogicfaith]

Oh, and yes, interviewing people of other religions isn't a bad idea. I'll probably do that. But the main event will be interviewing christians because this is about testing christianity.

[shaw-n]

A curious fact is even in countries where atheism was enforced, belief in a "God" and "spirituality" was not possible to eliminate.
Was this just people being quiet and outwardly going along with the program and yet in secret training the young people?
Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
Spirituality seems impossible to repress.
We are hardwired in this way.

If you are seeking to validate christianity you are IMO wasting your time.
If you are seeking to validate genuine spirituality then you should have a mind/heart opening adventure before you.

This site should provide a bit of insight into the roots of your faith:
Welcome to Noahide Nations

[reasonlogicfaith]

After much discussion in several forums, the question list has been revised to the following:

1. What is your position on homosexual marriage and adoption?
2. What is your position on evolution vs creation?
3. Does the spiritual realm exist in a literal sense?
4. Why do you think there are no officially recorded cases of God healing amputees?

Mainly due to the argument that simply asking "why won't God heal amputees" will result in some very insulted vicars. So it's been moved to last and softened up a bit.
And the profanity question has been replaced by the spiritual realm question, since it's believed the new question will yield much more interesting and quite likely conflicting responses, and the profanity question will most likely just result in the vicars quoting the bible, and engaging in an argument with a religious official about bible interpretation would achieve nothing.

I'm still very interested to hear any ideas or criticisms this forum has.

[Eolas Pellor]

Questions are, rarely, the neutral, innocent, information seeking things that they purport to be. People have begun to realize this, and often spend a good deal of energy and inventiveness jerking around the people who ask them things -- as those who conduct polls realize.

You may get some interesting responses but, of course, people could be lying to you, or they could be telling you what they think you want to hear, or they could be giving you answers they think are least likely to result in further intrusions, or the answers could be entirely random and unrepresentative of what the people you ask truly think.

But, even say they do answer truthfully and fully, what is it you expect to learn from their answers?

Originally Posted by reasonlogicfaith

1. What is your position on homosexual marriage and adoption?
2. What is your position on evolution vs creation?
3. Does the spiritual realm exist in a literal sense?
4. Why do you think there are no officially recorded cases of God healing amputees?

1. So they say they do not think homosexuals should marry and adopt...does that make them evil, hateful people? I know a few people who do not think that homosexuals should be able to do either, but that does not make them evil. The fact it doesn't bother me in the slightest does not make me a good person....does it?

2. This question presupposes a conflict; it is phrased very much in an "either ...or" way. But quite a few people see no conflict between the two; others think, quite correctly IMHO, that it is an irrelevancy. What happened 4.5 billion years ago (or 6000 or so years ago -- take your pick) has very little bearing or relevance to how we should live our lives today. You seem to assume that mythology is central to religion, but it isn't.

3. Potentially, this is the most interesting question you ask, but the way you are asking it, it invites a "yes" or "no" answer, which is hardly informative at all. People may be willing to answer, but there is something in this question which suggests that you, the one asking, do not believe in such a literal existence of the spiritual...and that is likely to result in people not giving you a full answer, even if you ask follow-ups. But, more importantly, one again has to wonder why it matters; it is very possible to live a religious life without believing in a spiritual existence, and vice versa.

4. Hmmm. I know a few amputees, and they seem to have healed quite well. No bleeding, suppurating stumps that I have ever seen. I cannot take this question seriously at all; it is self-evidently childish and, even with your attempt at rewording, deliberately mocking. I doubt that many people will want to bother engaging with you if you take that tone.

[reasonlogicfaith]

Thanks so much for the reply, your comments are exactly what I was hoping for.

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

Questions are, rarely, the neutral, innocent, information seeking things that they purport to be. People have begun to realize this, and often spend a good deal of energy and inventiveness jerking around the people who ask them things -- as those who conduct polls realize.

I am definitely not trying to achieve anything other than information gathering. But I'm aware that people may not interpret that to be my intention. That's the main reason I'm here, to learn a few things about the art of neutrality.

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

You may get some interesting responses but, of course, people could be lying to you, or they could be telling you what they think you want to hear, or they could be giving you answers they think are least likely to result in further intrusions, or the answers could be entirely random and unrepresentative of what the people you ask truly think.

Good point, and I need to be more aware of this. It certainly affects the opinion statistics side of things, and although I can't completely tackle this problem, I can reduce it's effect by being as polite and considerate as possible. I'll be starting each interview by stating that this is not an interrogation, they can pass on any question, and that if they ask it, I will delete the video taken and leave, without mentioning them to anyone. Could you please offer critique on this approach, and possibly some additions to it?

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

But, even say they do answer truthfully and fully, what is it you expect to learn from their answers?

For myself, personally, aside from the gathering statistics thing, I hope to find approaches, points of views and arguments for each issue that I haven't heard or thought of before.

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

1. So they say they do not think homosexuals should marry and adopt...does that make them evil, hateful people? I know a few people who do not think that homosexuals should be able to do either, but that does not make them evil. The fact it doesn't bother me in the slightest does not make me a good person....does it?

This is the only thing you've said that doesn't really make any sense... I don't think I said anywhere that anyone who doesn't believe gays should marry is evil or hateful. I'm not trying to come to a conclusion about the character of the people I'm interviewing. I want answers, opinions, and what people believe is God's word on the issue...

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

2. This question presupposes a conflict; it is phrased very much in an "either ...or" way. But quite a few people see no conflict between the two; others think, quite correctly IMHO, that it is an irrelevancy. What happened 4.5 billion years ago (or 6000 or so yeasr ago -- take your pick) has very little bearing or relevance to how we should live our lives today. You seem to assume that mythology is central to religion, but it isn't.

I totally agree that the issue is should be irrelevant for personal faith. But too many people live their lives trying to preach what they believe is God's word on the matter to ignore this issue. Specifically, the US fundamentalist evangelical movement. It occurs that possibly a question rephrasing is in order, could you suggest one?

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

3. Potentially, this is the most interesting question you ask, but the way you are asking it, it invites a "yes" or "no" answer, which is hardly informative at all. People may be willing to answer, but there is something in this question which suggests that you, the one asking, do not believe in such a literal existence of the spiritual...and that is likely to result in people not giving you a full answer, even if you ask follow-ups. But, more importantly, one again has to wonder why it matters; it is very possible to live a religious life without believing in a spiritual existence, and vice versa.

To address the 'yes or no' thing, could I not simply affix an "and why?" to the end? And yes, the problem of suggesting my own opinion in the question has occurred to me, but I'm unsure of how to eliminate this. Can you offer any guidance? For the record, my own opinion of the spiritual realm is that I have absolutely no idea. I honestly genuinely am looking for answers.

Originally Posted by Eolas Pellor

4. Hmmm. I know a few amputees, and they seem to have healed quite well. No bleeding, suppurating stumps that I have ever seen. I cannot take this question seriously at all; it is self-evidently childish and, even with your attempt at rewording, deliberately mocking. I doubt that many people will want to bother engaging with you if you take that tone.

I'm honestly not trying to mock anyone. I heard this question on youtube and I have absolutely no idea how to answer it, and I'd like to see how those more learned than me on the bible and christianity in general respond to it. And it's not just about my knowledge, it's also that this question has been the full stop on so many christianity vs atheism discussions that I've followed, and I'd like to give christians who don't keep up with internet debate a chance to address it.

[Eolas Pellor]

...it's getting a bit late, and I'm tired.

Originally Posted by reasonlogicfaith

This is the only thing you've said that doesn't really make any sense... I don't think I said anywhere that anyone who doesn't believe gays should marry is evil or hateful. I'm not trying to come to a conclusion about the character of the people I'm interviewing. I want answers, opinions, and what people believe is God's word on the issue...

You may not be saying it, but, unfortunately, people may well take it that you are implying things such as that. In point of fact, some people do phrase their reaction to people's position on this issue in this way. The whole discussion around "whether or not" is fraught with this kind of difficulty; people trying to represent anyone who holds a contrary opinion as Satan's press secretary.

I would be happier with wording more along the lines of "what characteristics should people who want to be married display?"

As for the adoption question, since both my children are adopted, I know that couples (or singles) wanting to adopt are put through a ringer that no one who has not been through it can imagine. It is a grueling and soul-searching experience, and whether the people are straight or gay, they intend only the best for their children-to-be, and are willing to do anything to be good parents. Frankly, the gays and lesbians in our adoption class (here in Canada, prospective adopting parents are required to take parenting classes) were, by far, the best.